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Sweeney:
This is James Sweeney of the Old Dominion University Archives. I am conducting today an oral hisotry interview with Mrs. Elizabeth S. DeBedts, Special Collections Librarian and formerly Head of the Circulation Department in the Old Dominion University Library. The date is May 28, 1979.
The first questions that I would like to ask you is this: would you tell me about your early life in Norfolk, your family, and your
education in Norfolk?
DeBedts: I was born
in Norfolk, Virginia and I've spent much of my life in Norfolk. My family
was a Norfolk family, actually. My grandfather owned a large seafood
restaurant here. My father taught in the public schools here. My mother
lived in Berkeley most of her life, until she moved and married my father
in Norfolk. We had a cottage in Virginia Beach, too, where we stayed
year-round at times. I went to school in Norfolk, beginning with Robert
E. Lee Elementary School, then Blair Junior High School, and then Maury
Senior High School. I attended the Norfolk Division of William and Mary
for two years before beginning my junior year at Mary Washington College
in Fredericksburg. I've seen Norfolk grow from a small city to a large
city, one that is spread out with a great deal of urban development.
During the war, Norfolk grew to about three times its size. At times,
the streets turned blue and white, according to the seasons. The Navy,
at one time, didn't think much about being stationed here because it
didn't really have a great deal to offer the servicemen. It was a small
city, but they did attempt to bring in recreation and to accommodate
the large naval population. Many of the Navy people have returned to
Norfolk to retire. This is because, I think, Norfolk has offered more
and more cultural attractions.
Sweeney: You were a
student at the Norfolk Division from 1945 to 1947. Could you tell me some
of your recollections of student life at the Division during those days?
DeBedts: At the time
when I was a student, the majority of the student body were young ladies
because the war was just over and some of the military personnel (the
young men) were returning to school. We had a much smaller student body
and a small, but very good, faculty. There were only two buildings on
the campus: the Old Administration Building, as it is known now, and
the Larchmont School. The Larchmont School was used for the sciences
and the arts.
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The Administration
Building, at the time, had classrooms, the offices of the faculty, Bud's
Emporium, and a large gymnasium which was used for athletic events.
Most of the students on campus knew each other. You could call most
of them by first name. There was a lot of activity among the students.
I would say that there was probably a little more school spirit because
it was not so large and you did get to know your professors quite well.
They were very helpful. I believe the Division has offered a high quality
education since its establishment. These courses were transferable to
other schools. We felt proud of our small college, even at that time.
Sweeney: How did you
find your way into a career in library science?
DeBedts: After getting
a biology degree from Mary Washington College, I was looking for a job.
I had also applied to medical school, which, at the time, required almost
a two-year wait because many of the veterans were returning to school.
They had a preference in being accepted to some of the programs. In
the interim period of waiting to go back to graduate school, I accepted
a job at the Naval Air Station, as an assistant to the librarian at
the Naval Air Station Library in the barracks of U16. I enjoyed the
work. Mrs. Morgan, the librarian, was quite a good teacher and she was
enthusiastic about library science. She encouraged me to go into library
work. After two years of working there and enjoying it very much, I
decided to apply for the University of North Carolina Library School.
I was accepted and I went there.
Sweeney: Are there any
recollections about that experience at Chapel Hill that you would like
to relate?
DeBedts: Well, everybody
who goes to Chapel Hill leaves part of their heart in Chapel Hill! It
is such a lovely campus. The Library School had a fine faculty. In library
school, I would say that you have a tremendous amount of work. I'm not
sure that it is the highest scholastic work one can do, but it is certainly
geared to qualify you to work in a library and the various departments
of the library. At the time when I was taking graduate courses, I was
also working at the University of North Carolina Library, in the Acquisitions
Department. When I finished school in the summer of '51, I was offered
a position as Assistant Circulation Librarian for the summer. At that
time, I had not had any professional experience. I worked under Mr.
I.T. Littleton, the Circulation Librarian who had taken ill. He somewhat
guided me through the procedures from the other end of a telephone.
He was also a good teacher and I enjoyed that work. I did a great deal
of moving and shifting books. It was a most valuable experience. I also
qualified in my studies for a Medical Library Certificate, which has
been a help at different times.
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Sweeney: I know from
previous conversations with you that your career took you out to the University
of Oregon. I'd like for you to tell me about your years at that institution
and why you chose to leave and return to the east.
DeBedts: Actually,
I went out to Oregon without a job. I settled in Eugene and applied
at the University of Oregon for a job. I was hired in the capacity of
Gift & Exchange Librarian in the Acquisitions Department. This was as
an assistant to the Gift & Exchange Librarian. It involved handling
gifts that came in to the university, making decisions about whether
these gifts would be added to the library, acknowledging gifts, and
going out into the community to select materials. I stayed four years
in that department. While I was there, the University of Oregon added
its five hundred thousandth volume, so it was a fairly large library.
It was a departmental library in its functioning. After four years in
the Acquisitions Department, I accepted a job as a cataloger in the
Catalog Department. This was a new venture. I accepted the position
because I felt that every librarian really should have a good background
in cataloging. It is of value to every librarian, to understand the
cataloging of the collection. Again, I was fortunate in having a very
good teacher. I spent two years in this department, at which time I
gained experience and knowledge that I have used constantly in library
work. Upon returning east, I had decided that I would go back to the
University of North Carolina because they had added a master's degree
in library science. I decided that, although my degree was fully recognized
as a master's, I would take some additional courses. I stayed there
about a year. Due to the illness of my mother, I was not able to complete
the degree itself, but it did give me additional courses that I think
were valuable.
Sweeney: In 1959, you
joined the staff of Hughes Library at the Norfolk Division of William
and Mary. Could you tell me how you obtained the job and what your duties
were?
DeBedts: I applied
for an interview with the librarian, Mr. Pollard. I was granted the
interview and submitted my application, stating that I was available
for work. Fortunately, the library was moving into a new building in
1959, the Hughes Library, and they were adding some additional staff.
It just so happened that they had a vacancy for a reference librarian,
which was very exciting to me. The new building was quite modern and
large. It was a new, two-story building with a solar screen that was
very pleasant to work behind. It gave you a view outside, a feeling
of privacy, and it filtered out direct light. The library, at the time,
was divided into departments. All departments were located on the first
floor of the building. The second floor of Hughes Library was given
to the English Department. There were small offices and classrooms on
the second floor. 4 The auditorium in the central part of the building
was used for recitals. We did enjoy that building. It was expandable
and we had every intention of moving to the second floor, which we did.
When Ms. Martin, the head of Circulation, was stricken with a heart
attack, I was offered the job of Circulation Librarian since I had experience
with circulation in the past.
Sweeney: You've always
had a very strong commitment to public service.
DeBedts: Yes - I think
that any part of public service is important. It's a first impression
that's given in the library. I think it's important for people to give
the best impression of the library. I think they can influence the people
coming into the library. It should be a good impression, one that welcomes
and helps students to know that the library is here for them.
Sweeney: I would like
your comments on Mr. William C. Pollard, the librarian in 1959.
DeBedts: Mr. Pollard
was a very fine man and he was well liked. He was a rather easy-going
man, yet a man who was certainly working for the growth of the library
and staff. I think he had the support of his staff. Although it was
a small staff at the time, I think it was Mr. Pollard's influence that
made the staff feel that it was a part of the library and its growth.
He was a man who knew his staff. I believe Mr. Pollard enjoyed his role
very much. I think he was just the right man for a library in its growing
stages. He was sometimes cramped by funds. He did initiate a small Acquisitions
Department. We went into that new building with the feeling that we
would build a collection that was strong in quality and would support
the coursework given. That was the aim.
Sweeney: How did you
meet your husband, Professor Ralph DeBedts, of the History Department?
DeBedts: [We met]
right in the library! Dr. DeBedts became a member of the History Department
in 1960. It was not until 1961 or '62 that I met him, through an introduction
by Dr. and Mrs. Schellings. He came in with them one day to the Circulation
Department and I was introduced to him. We began to see more of each
other. Eventually, we were married in 1963.
Sweeney: Could you compare
and/or contrast the professional status of the librarians at Old Dominion
College and those at the University of Oregon?
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DeBedts: The University
Of Oregon was like many other universities ahead of Old Dominion College,
in the fact that the librarians did have faculty status. When I accepted
my position as a professional librarian at the University of Oregon,
I was given the title of "instructor," as a faculty member. Old Dominion
College had not established the standing for librarians, at the time.
Librarians were considered state employees, somewhat like civil service,
with two-week vacations and they were under those rules and regulations
of the classified employees. While the University of Oregon had given
its librarians recognition on the university level, they had also offered
the benefits of month vacations (22 days, if you wish), salary based
upon the faculty salary scale, qualifications which had to be met with
additional studies, and the extra benefits of hospitalization were also
there. These were available at the University of Oregon at the time
when I accepted my position there, where they had to be gained at Old
Dominion College.
Sweeney: Could you tell
me why the librarians here first accepted tenure and later abandoned it?
DeBedts: There had
been a move throughout the state about the question as to what librarians'
status would be on the campuses. I think there is still some question
about this. The librarians here had classified status. The move within
the state was for librarians to be a part of and under the university,
in the capacity of university administrators. In taking the librarians
from under the classified status, they lost a certain amount of security
that was offered under that status. There were very vague guidelines
under the university status because it had never been done before. President
Webb granted the professional librarians with at least ten years service,
tenure. The reason for doing this was not just the individual security,
but to bring professional librarians into the library and offer them
equal benefits at Old Dominion College, as other universities and colleges
were doing. They were being offered a month's vacation, benefits from
Blue Cross/Blue Shield, and the title of instructor. After ten years,
I was given the title of instructor at Old Dominion College. Ten years
previous, I had that same title at the University of Oregon. When I
became a department head, I was given the title of associate professor.
Sweeney: Are the new
librarians seeking the tenure status again?
DeBedts: I think what
scared the librarians away from the tenure situation and why they moved
away from it is because, in reality, there is a PhD at the end of the
line for the librarian, as well as for the faculty member. It would
be only right to have the librarian acquire the PhD and meet the qualifications
of a faculty member if she is to hold faculty rank. It is difficult
for a librarian working 6 full-time to attend a university and return
to classes to acquire the higher degrees. They would have to obtain
leave. Two degrees are very acceptable for a position in library work
because we have specialists now. If they choose to continue as faculty
members, they would then certainly be expected to meet the qualifications.
Sweeney: Do you think
that the younger librarians, especially since they will have a representative
in the new Faculty Senate in 1979, will possibly move back toward the
idea of getting tenure?
DeBedts: I think there
will be a move, possibly, if library courses are taught and offered
as credit at Old Dominion and if the librarians have an opportunity
to teach these courses. A lot will depend on the administration of the
library and how they see this in the future.
Sweeney: I believe that
you taught some courses at the university. Could you provide some additional
information on this aspect of your career?
DeBedts: There was
a time when I did teach some of the library courses offered in the School
of Education. These courses were offered for certification to school
librarians. I was approached about teaching a course in cataloging and
one in children's literature when these courses were first introduced.
This was a part of the School of Education's program to certify librarians
when the schools needed them in the area. They felt that we certainly
had some students and some potential librarians in the community who
might see these courses as updating and qualifying them for the different
school positions in Norfolk. I taught cataloging courses at night and
I also taught in summer school, both for seven years.
Sweeney: In 1966, Mr.
Brewster Peabody became the new library director when Mr. Pollard accepted
the director's post at the College of William and Mary. Could you give
me an assessment of Peabody's ten years as director and the strengths
and weaknesses of his performance?
DeBedts: When Mr.
Peabody came to the library, I believe it was his first position as
an administrator. I believe his experience had been in the field of
Acquisitions, as well as his interests. I believe that he probably accepted
the position here feeling that this would be a library that would grow
in size and add to its collection. Mr. Peabody's efforts took the library
a long way in developing a collection. He sought out sources that had
not been tapped before, such as the U.S. Book Exchange. Efforts were
made to strengthen the library. There were probably some difficult times
for Mr. Peabody, as well as for his staff, in adjusting to the administrative
position. Again, I saw the staff as quite willing to accept the direction
of a new administrator. I believe Mr. Peabody, as an administrator,
grew in his ten years as director. He did attempt to involve the staff
in 7 meetings. I think his newness possibly made him somewhat insecure
and it took some time for the realization that he had a staff that would
be willing to cooperate in the growth of the university library. He
was also responsible for the establishment of an Acquisitions Department.
The staff did have input with the new building. During those ten years,
we added some very fine librarians. As for Mr. Peabody's weaknesses,
I think there was, at times, a communication problem. There was unfortunately
some clashes of temperament. Mr. Peabody left under somewhat unfortunate
circumstances. I think he wanted to go back into a position of less
responsibility. [Nonetheless] we were adding approximately 40,000 volumes
of books a year.
Sweeney: Would you say
that his principle weakness was his difficulty in working with people?
Maybe he found it more easy to work with books than people.
DeBedts: I think that's
true. Books are easier to get along with! I do feel that he communicated
much better with his staff in the later years. He had worked with us
and let us have input. I'm sure that maybe he got a little weary of
administration.
Sweeney: During Peabody's
tenure, the professional librarians began to organize. Could you tell
me about this movement and the role you played in it? Wasn't this organization
called the Library Council?
DeBedts: Yes - the
professional librarians requested an opportunity to organize a library
council. They did draw up guidelines for the council. There were fairly
regular meetings for the discussions of issues that concerned the library.
It was a line of communication for both the administration and the librarians.
For this reason, the communications improved a tremendous amount.
Sweeney: Around what
year did this begin?
DeBedts: Mrs.[Adrienne]
Schellings could give you the exact date. She served on the Council
Executive Board. The Council was entrusted with evaluating professional
librarians for promotion and recommending promotions. I'm sorry, but
I can't remember the exact date. All librarians, new and old, had a
place in the Council.
Sweeney: Was it primarily
advisory?
DeBedts: It was definitely
advisory. The administration was certainly recognized as the final authority.
Sweeney: You will always
be remembered as the head of a very efficient Circulation Department.
Could you tell me how you improved that department in the old Hughes Library?
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DeBedts: We moved
the circulation desk for better control of the exits. In making it more
efficient, we attempted to train good student assistants and to give
them a feeling of learning two or three different jobs. We emphasized
training the student assistants to understand the library. They were
told that they should be courteous, even in the face of rudeness. We
were to give the most efficient and effective service that we could,
in a pleasant manner. We added some clerical people, too, because we
needed some good typists to help us in processing. Circulation is a
lot of clerical work and accuracy is one thing that counts. The clerical
people were often used for filing cards. We had a manual system for
many years and this involved accuracy. We also obtained more staff members
to work the desk so that there were several of us who could alternate.
We used an overlay of color-coding to pull overdues in the manual system.
As our circulation grew, there were more cards to file and more overdues
to send out. We did get some help from the administration by being able
to send out notices. We also innovated an ID card, which was helpful
to the students. The first one was an embossed card and we had a printer
to print the information (name, address, and phone number) on the card.
This was the best ID card we've had, outside of a computer card which
is now available. Unfortunately, they felt it was too expensive to continue
to emboss the cards and this made our printers obsolete.
Sweeney: Did you ever
get bored with that position and think about a move to Reference, for
example?
DeBedts: Circulation
is a lot of routine, but in my position, I certainly had contact with
the students, the faculty, and the staff. No - I can't say that it's
ever been boring. It's been exciting, humorous, and satisfying. To me,
the circulation desk is like watching an ocean. You see a new tide of
faces with every new term and yet, you see a lot of the familiar waves
come back. While the university and the library have been continually
growing, we've had some pitfalls, like when we wondered if we would
go to university status. I could not say that it's been boring. It's
been anything but boring. There has been change in personalities and
personnel. Reference may be intellectually stimulating and more rewarding
to the individual, but it may not be quite as active as circulation.
Sweeney: In January
1977, Dr. Cynthia Duncan became director of the library and began to institute
major changes. Could you give me your impressions of Dr. Duncan and her
administrative style?
DeBedts: When any
new director or administrator comes in, I think that all staff members
hope for the best. Dr. Duncan came at mid-term with ideas from the library
field. I'm sure she also had her own ideas and plans for the library.
We had moved into a new building and we were excited. We were facing,
for the first time, better working conditions than
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we had in the past.
The first part of Dr. Duncan's administration was probably spent with
the university administration. Then, she met with some of her staff
and offered some suggestions. She gave every indication of wanting to
move ahead on automation and to rid us of the malfunctioning door-check!
For a while, the staff felt as if it didn't know Dr. Duncan and her
administrative capacity. I think that this was probably somewhat disappointing
to the staff members because we had spent a long time establishing lines
of communication. I feel that, in Mr. Peabody's position and maybe as
well as Dr. Duncan's, possibly there has been a lack of recognition
that there was a staff in the library that wanted to be a part of the
change and growth and to have the opportunity to contribute to that.
Originally, we had hoped for one million volumes in the new library,
but funds cut us back so that we were facing a 650,000 volume building.
There is room to expand and everyone on the staff expected the library
to grow. I think that as we move into the age of technology and automation,
we should not forget that we have human resources. We need human know-how.
In doing this, we must bring people together to work smoothly to even
get the machines to work smoothly. We must have qualified people. I
would like to see good leadership in the administrators of the library.
This leadership should have the courage to make the staff feel like
a part of the operation of the library, to unite the staff, and to stimulate
an overall feeling that each member of the staff, from the student assistant
to the professional librarian, has an important part in the library.
Sweeney: So, you think
the atmosphere is less open than it was under Mr. Peabody?
DeBedts: Yes - I do.
I don't think people mind change if it is understood that it is for
the whole. Any educated person has to learn change. I think the person
who works in the library has an inquisitive mind. We have to have the
exchanging of ideas and communication.
Sweeney: Could you discuss
the move whereby you left the circulation desk and became the Special
Collections librarian in 1978?
DeBedts: This move
was seen by the administration as a lateral transfer. Circulation is
simply a clerical situation; it doesn't require a professional librarian.
A classified clerk can do the routine work. I was brought in as a reference
librarian, but I was asked to take the position of circulation librarian
because they had found that by having a trained librarian in that department
that it was better for public relations. There was a need for student
assistants to have good direction and leadership. It made a difference
if the student assistants were well trained. In some of the libraries
today where computers have been put into circulation, they do find that
the clerical people can handle the computers. I think it is important
that we have people who like to work with people.
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I also think this
adds something to the public relations and the first impression of a
library. There may come a time when the students can come into the library
and consult a computer terminal to find books without help. I find that,
however, students usually seek human help. Library instruction is needed.
It makes it easier for the students if they have someone who can give
them instruction. They often ask the people at the circulation desk
for help. I think this human element is a help.
Sweeney: When the new
library opened, you had a very commodious reserve room, where people could
use the reserve materials. That abruptly changed and the room was devoted
to another use. The reserve materials were then put behind the circulation
desk. I know that was not your plan, but what do you have to say about
that?
DeBedts: When we were
in Hughes Library, we had gone from a closed reserve room to a closed
section of a reserve room. We went to an open reserve room when we moved
to the second floor. In this supervised room, students could take the
materials off of the shelves and use them. This seemed to be quite popular.
My husband often put many books on reserve for his history courses because
his students were required to read certain books. Some people say that
a reserve book room should not be a browsing room. I don't think that
is quite true because the professors have selected these books and indicated
that they were expected to be read. When we came into the new building,
there was a feeling that we would have more room in the building itself.
The Hughes Library had become very crowded. In the new building, we
felt that we could have reserve books in a separate room with a control
desk so that students could look at the materials and check them out
for a limited time. They couldn't leave the library with the reserve
books; that was controlled by door-check. The students seemed to like
the idea of being able to select the books.
Sweeney: Looking back
on twenty years of service to the university, what would you say are your
greatest areas of satisfaction?
DeBedts: [My] greatest
satisfaction was seeing the university grow, expand, and thrive as it
has. Sometimes, we had the feeling that we were putting the cart before
the horse or that we may not have been ready for this or that step.
When I first came here, we had a total of 30,000 volumes in the whole
library, with only a small part of this being the reference collection.
I wondered if this small collection would support me in my reference
service. I found that the collection was certainly adequate and it did
support the students' needs. Quality was visible, in my use of the collection.
Maybe not quantity, but quality was there. We've grown in a few years
from a division to a university. I think we've caught up. We've had
a good influx of students and we haven't taken a backwards step yet.
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Sweeney: Were there
any disappointments?
DeBedts: No - I don't
think we've had any great disappointments. I think the success and satisfaction
definitely outweigh the disappointment.
Sweeney: Finally, could
you tell your plans for your post-ODU career?
DeBedts: It might
be just being Dr. DeBedts' wife. I think that is a very nice career!
We will prepare to make a move to England, with the idea of settling
in England for two years to find out if we would like to continue to
live there. My husband has always wanted to live in England. We've traveled
in England widely and we find it to be a very pleasant country. Ralph
likes to write and he currently has a project in Anglo-American relations
that he is researching, which might possibly lead to book publication.
As for my future career, my immediate one is to prepare to leave for
England. I will set up a new home for us there and we will enjoy some
pleasant times together. In time, if I miss the library, I fully intend
to visit libraries and keep in touch with the library field. The libraries
in England have made some advancements. If I find the need for a second
career, it would probably be a part-time career. I think it's time for
Ralph and I to enjoy a new career of being together more.
Sweeney: Thank you very
much for a most pleasant and informative interview. |
