Oral History Interview
with
ARTHUR B. METHENY

Norfolk, Virginia
May 29, 1975
by James R. Sweeney, Old Dominion University

Listen to the Interview

Sweeney: Today we’re continuing the interview with Mr. Arthur B. "Bud" Metheny, for many years the baseball coach and former chairman of the department of health and physical education at Old Dominion University. Starting with question 111 here, by 1964 you seemed in public statements to see a change for the better coming in the college’s athletic policy as plans were being formulated for a new physical education building with a 10,000 seat gymnasium. You also indicated a possible change in the school’s "no athletic scholarships" policy. I wonder why such changes came about in the administration’s attitude?

Metheny: Well, in 1960 I wrote the first letter investigating the possibility of having our new building. And it took us 10 years to get it. We got in it in 1970. And we were doing well in baseball, and the students wanted to move up in the grading of the entire program. That was their request, and in the editorials in the newspaper and things of that type. And so we started investigating the possibility of moving up in athletics, which we did in getting into the Mason—Dixon. And with the demand of the newspapers and the public we thought that we were about ready to move up in the field of athletics. So we started making our preparations for that. And we knew that if we did move up and to be able to compete on an equal basis that we’d have to give athletic scholarships. And so the "no athletic scholarship" policy would have to go by the board. The administration, Mr. Webb, was with us. He said he understood this and would work out a plan to be able to do this. So it was then that we moved on to thinking about upgrading our basketball.

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Sweeney: How do you account for the marked improvement after mid-season of the ODC basketball team of ‘63—’64? This improvement included a dramatic 94—93 victory over Randolph-Macon which ended a 19 game winning streak for Randolph-Macon, and then Old Dominion went on to the Mason—Dixon Conference tournament.

Metheny: Well, this team was comprised of mostly local athletes, and there was quite an interest, and the morale was high. And we were striving to get ahead. It just seemed that everything fell in line, and that night that we beat them we played probably our finest game of the season. And so we were fortunate enough to come out ahead Randolph-Macon has always been quite a competitive school against us and still is today.

Sweeney: Now I’d like to ask two or three questions about the Old Dominion College Intercollegiate Foundation. What were the purposes of it? What role did automobile dealer Jack Wilkins play in it, and what has been the significance for the ODU program?

Metheny: Well, the Old Dominion College Intercollegiate Foundation came about through the interest of a student and automobile dealer Jack Wilkins. And to this day he’s constantly taking classes here. And Jack, being quite a promoter and very interested in the university, got together with Jimmy Howard, a lawyer here in town, and we talked it over. And then we got together with the coaching staff, and we decided to put all our eggs in one basket, which would be basketball, because it was the one sport that we could take in money at the gate. And so we felt that this was the avenue to go. And so Jack Wilkins and James A. Howard helped us to do this. And, by the way, Mr. Howard was on our board of visitors at the time. So we had the sanction of this possible program all the way from the board of visitors.

Sweeney: Would you say that this Intercollegiate Foundation has played a significant role in building up the program?

Metheny: Yes. Without the Foundation we couldn’t have gotten underway because they were the group that solicited moneys for athletic scholarships, primarily for basketball. And, as I say, this was to be done with the expectation that in th the expectation that in the future by

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developing basketball it would help our entire athletic program, and then the money would come down to our other sports. The Intercollegiate Foundation is still here today, and they have helped us tremendously in the securing of funds.

Sweeney: How did the community, including the business and political leaders, respond to the prospect of an upgraded college athletics at Old Dominion?

Metheny: Well, the newspapers helped us a great deal, and the community got behind it. The local businesses wanted some recognition for our city. The people, the city council and that, were with us. They knew that we could get national. . . Everyone knew that we could be recognized nationally much quicker through the realm of athletics than we could with any other means. And not only would the university benefit, the entire community would also. So bringing together the Tidewater community into a program of this type could only help everyone. We planned this program on the highest level. We adhered to every rule that was presented to us. We adhered to the strictest athletic rules. As a result, our program has developed and the community has stayed behind us. This upgrading has not only come in athletics. Our student athletes are recognized as fine students. Matter of fact, right now we have one All American academic student. So the program has been supported by everyone in the area, and as a result it is now beginning to show the fruits that we expected it to.

Sweeney: How did the faculty at the university itself respond to this prospect of an upgraded program?

Metheny: The faculty here has always been behind our athletic program because they have always been included in it. We have not separated athletics from the academic area. Matter of fact, the head of our department is known as the chairman of the health and physical education department and is also the athletic director. So we are not a separate entity. The faculty has backed us all the way; they’ve even let us know; for instance, in baseball I send every one of my players’ professors a letter every spring. And I tell them when we’re going to leave, the time of day, when we’re going to get back, I ask them for their assistance in that if any of my athletes begin to slip, would they just notify me so that I can follow it up. And as a result our fatality rate in the loss of student athletes

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has diminished to a very small percentage. So the faculty has been behind us, and they know too that by getting on the national records weekly that being at an institution that is publicized is to their benefit too.

Sweeney: What kind of response came from Virginia’s so—called major athletic schools, for example, Virginia Polytechnic Institute, the University of Virginia, and Virginia Military Institute, to the prospect of Old Dominion becoming a major school athletically?

Metheny: Well, we had some problems at first because we were in the college division and they were in the university division. But baseball was the first sport to break this barrier, and all three schools played us in baseball before they played the other sports. And today we still play them, and we play them in all of our sports, except we do have trouble at the present time in scheduling Virginia and VPI in basketball. But our other sports, we have been able to compete on an equal level, and have been accepted on the university level.

Sweeney: There was a proposal in the early ‘60’s that the new arena for the college would be partly financed by the city. I wondered how you felt about that proposal?

Metheny: As far as I know, the city has not financed any part of our new fieldhouse. The money came from the state and matching funds with the federal government plus extra funds from the state. Matter of fact, if I recall correctly, and I’m not quite positive about this, the federal government gave us about one and a third million dollars towards this four million dollar structure.

Sweeney: The 1964 baseball team was very highly regarded, but they began the season with three losses in their first four games. I was wondering if it was bad weather that threw the team out of rhythm.

Metheny: Oh, I don’t think so because, you know, it’s the same for both teams when they’re out there. We just didn’t play that well to win. And maybe it was the new fellows getting acclimated to the type competition, or maybe it was the coach

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in that he didn’t make the right decisions. But, I’ll tell you, baseball is a game that, when anybody walks out there, they can win, good or bad. Just bounce the ball, and there’s a difference of the game. It’s not like other sports. Baseball in itself is more like life. You’re out there all alone. If you do well, everybody sees you; if you do poorly, everybody sees you. And so no one can catch the ball or throw the ball for you or hit it. It’s not like other sports where you can get a block or a screen or something of that type where you can get help, because baseball is practically an individual sport.

Sweeney: Then the team did a complete turnaround, winning 21 games in a row and another Mason—Dixon Conference championship. I wondered what were the key elements of this 1964 team’s success?

Metheny: Well, they always say that in baseball when you’re strong up the middle —— that’s catcher, pitcher, second base, shortstop, and center field —— that you’ll have a winning season. Well, we had a group of boys that were all fine students. And when boys stay in school for four years they develop to a very high degree. Matter of fact, we had one boy that signed for $24,000 with the Chicago White Sox off of that team. We had three All Americans. It was a team that had a lot of talent, and they just could hit and field and we had the pitching. And so, put it all together, that was the reason for the success of that team.

Sweeney: What role did the Norfolk Sports Club have in developing the Old Dominion Intercollegiate Athletic Foundation?

Metheny: Well, the members on the Intercollegiate Foundation were also members of the Norfolk Sports Club, but the Norfolk Sports Club per se did not have anything to do with the Old Dominion Intercollegiate Athletic Foundation. But what they did for us, they had four scholarships that they had for each year for a local high school athlete. And they allocated those to Old Dominion University. If they were accepted, then the athlete had to come to Old Dominion. And this helped our program. Now, all of this money went through our Scholarship Foundation here at the university, not through the Intercollegiate Foundation.

Sweeney: Why was it that the press reported that you were hopeful that ODC would be invited to the NCAA University Division tournament when ODC was not in the University Division?

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Metheny: I believe that there was some lack of communication here because there is no way possible that a College Division team could go to a University Division team. Now, we do have in a couple of sports like wrestling, where if a boy finished in, I believe it’s in the top three in the College Division tournament, then he automatically went to the University Division, if he so desired. But you can’t do that in team sports. They won’t accept it. Individual sports they accepted in some areas. But I believe there was just lack of communication when this came out.

Sweeney: That 1964 team went on to the NCAA Small College Atlantic Coast Regional championship, and they visited Yankee Stadium, defeating Buffalo 7-2 behind Bobby Walton and Long Island University 4-3 behind, pitcher Fred Edmonds. I was wondering if you could recall the highlights of the team’s visit to Yankee Stadium and if the team experienced any extra tension by playing there?

Metheny: Well, this was the second year that’we were in the finals, in the regionals, and it happened that we beat Buffalo the year before, Bobby Walton pitching, and so when we were paired against Buffalo this’year in the Yankee Stadium I also pitched Bobby against them. And this was the same team that won the year before, and they just felt that they could win. But I will say this, that for the first time for them to play in a stadium such as Yankee Stadium the tension was extremely high, probably higher than I’d ever seen it. But we weathered the tension and happened to break out in front, and that relieved it a lot. But it was a tremendous amount of tension on the athletes because once they walked into Yankee Stadium you could sense that they felt that they were playing in the ultimate. And as a result this tended to make them higher than ever, and so it was just fortunate that we got ahead, and that kind of relieved the tension, and they went on --we won it again.

Sweeney: Which would you say was the better team overall, the ‘63 or the 1964 Monarchs baseball team?

Metheny: Well, I guess the ‘64 because the team had a year’s top competition already completed and they were experienced and with the same boys and with the same desire or more desire to do better than they did before, I think the 1964 Monarch baseball team would be,the better of the two teams.

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Sweeney: In the 1964—1965 basketball season, why did Frank Cappola, a sophomore guard who had starred in a 102—68 victory over Washington and Lee, quit the team before the next game?

Metheny: Well, Frank was a very talented athlete. But he was a boy that was very headstrong, and in turn he didn’t go to class and things of this type, and he got behind, and then his outside activities kept him away from school. And so as a result he finally drifted away from school and dropped out of school. And so that was the only reason.

Sweeney: What effect did the loss of 6’ 5" center Randy Leddy for two—plus games with an ankle injury have on the fortunes of that 1964—65 basketball team?

Metheny: Well, Randy was such a fine rebounder, probably the finest rebounder that I have had. And he played one year for Coach Allen. And Randy’s big asset was his ability to rebound and get the ball to the other athletes. I think that when he injured his ankle, that took that big aspect of the game away from us, and so that was the effect it had on us. It was a very tremendously bad thing to happen to our team.

Sweeney: In 1964 you stated, "We are trying to eventually play on an Ivy League basis" in the ODC athletic program. Ten years later has this goal been achieved or superseded?

Metheny: Well, what we meant by "playing on an Ivy League basis" was a very high caliber of athletics, which I think we have achieved. And not only that, I think we have maintained this level. We just wanted to be respected and to have a respectable schedule, one that everybody’ would be proud of, and then we wanted to be able to compete. Now, at the present time in basketball we’re moving up our schedule all the time; in baseball at the present time we’re a little over our head. But we’re getting to that point now where we’re beginning to play on an even keel. And as we find out the caliber athlete that we need to recruit to compete and to maintain this high level of competition, then we will even do better and we’ll start winning more. And so it will be one of those things like down in the Atlantic Coast Conference where one team beats the other, swapping back and forth. It will be that type of high caliber competition.

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Sweeney: Could you comment on the basketball team’s victory in the 1965 Amphibious Force Holiday Basketball Tournament after they had lost 5 of their first 7 games. Did this give them a renewed sense of confidence?

Metheny: Yes. If I recall correctly, this is the first time we ever competed against Norfolk State College, and we played them in the finals. And we hit our peak that night. And so by winning this Holiday Tournament at Amphibious Base did give us a springboard sensation. And we went on and had a good year under Coach Allen.

Sweeney: In 1965 you were chosen Coach of the Year for 1964 in NCAA College Division baseball by the American Association of College Baseball Coaches. Could you comment on this award?

Metheny: Well, this was the culmination of what the team had done in ‘63, ‘64, and ‘65. And so any time a coach receives honors, it’s really the result of what his players have done. And if you have good athletes, these awards come along. I was very proud to get it. When you are selected by your own peers, that even makes it more tasty. And so that’s about the way it works. But I can say that to win that award across the nation made me feel very nice. I just don’t, know any other way to explain it.

Sweeney: One more question on this 1964—65 basketball team. You finished the season with a sub-par 8 win and 13 loss record and did not make Mason—Dixon Conference playoffs. This was your first losing season in 16 years as the head basketball coach. What went wrong?

Metheny: Well, we had been for three years not playing freshmen so that when we got the new coach the athletes that he would have would all be eligible for any playoff that he might get into. And so I feel that our ‘not having enough talent and not recruiting because of the lack of money at the time hurt Coach Allen in the first part of his recruiting. In other words, not his recruiting but my lack of being able to have scholarships for athletes. And when he got here it just wasn’t time for things to jell and for the new regime to show progress. That’s all there was to it; it takes time for anyone to come in and develop ,a winning program. And so this record at the time is indicative of growing pains, really, and that’s all it is. It took us from 1948 up until 1963 to have a championship team in baseball. And when you do it with no finances, it takes longer. Now with finances, Coach Allen has been able to show this improvement sooner, but he was in that kind of transition stage at this time.

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Sweeney: Could you tell me something about the selection process that you employed for choosing a new basketball coach in 1965. Who advised you, and why was Sonny Allen selected?

Metheny: Well, with Mr. Wilkins and Mr. Howard, I sat down and talked to them about it because I wanted to bring them into our program, too. Then we advertised that we were in the market for a new coach. And we had many applicants. And it was narrowed down to, well, first of all, we brought in Cliff Hagan the year before. And Cliff was very interested, but at the last minute he stayed with the pro’s. So we had to wait a year. And during that time we did some more investigating and then it came down to two people, a high school coach out of Indiana and Coach Allen, who had been a freshman coach at Marshall University. And after we had interviewed them and compared their credentials, we felt that Coach Allen could do the best job for Old Dominion University. And so that’s what it really boiled down to in the end was personal contact with Coach Allen, which we were impressed with.

Sweeney: What is the significance of faculty status for coaches at Old Dominion?

Metheny: Well, being that we are not a separate department means that everyone that is on the faculty at Old Dominion University has to have faculty status. Now that is not a requirement in athletics, but if you are going to work here and be in the health and physical education department, you have to be a faculty member. So it just boils down to that. We are not separate. If we were, then the coaches would not have to teach; all they’d have to do is coach. And that’s what it is at many, many universities. But we are together. Another reason why I feel that the faculty is behind us because we all are each other’s peers. And we do have this faculty status.

Sweeney: Why did no black players appear on the ODC basketball team in the early to mid—l960’s, and who was responsible for the change in policy to recruit black athletes?

Metheny: We really didn’t have a policy against recruiting of black athletes, but with this being a white school and Norfolk State being a black school it just seemed that each went their own way. And there wasn’t any change in policy to recruit black athletes; it was just that Coach Allen found some black athletes that were better than white athletes that he wanted, that would suit his system. And that’s how black athletes came’ to compete at Old Dominion University. It was just the times had arrived, and different ones wanted to be integrated. And the ones who did the best job, that's who we wanted. And so that’s how it came that black athletes came here.

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Sweeney: Your 1965 baseball continued the 21—game winning team streak of the 1964 team to 26 games and then lost both ends of a double header to Ithaca College 4-3 and 3-2. Could you recall this abrupt end to ODC's record winning streak?

Metheny: Yes, but, you see, as you win many games in a row the tension gets higher and higher, and then all of a sudden you notice that things seem to get clogged up, and, as you realize, we lost both games by one run. We were trying so hard that we just couldn’t do things that you can do when you’re relaxed and you can just move on your own. So I just think that it was time for our record to come to an end, and it did, and it comes awful abruptly. And a lot of times you might lose three, four, five in a row right afterwards trying to recover from it. Because when you’re dealing with young athletes, many things happen. And you’ve got to work very diligently and hard to get them turned around so that they will get over their feelings. They take it very hard.

Sweeney: Did it appear to you that pitcher Dennis Riddleberger had major league potential when he pitched for Old Dominion?

Metheny: Yes. Dennis was left—handed, and he had, a very fine fast ball. , And being a left-hander and not being wild gave him the tag that there was a possibility that he’d play professionally. And then every summer when it got good and warm and he’d do so well in our summer amateur leagues, the big leagues picked him up later and he went on to the big leagues and did a fine job. But, yes, Dennis had the label right from the beginning.

Sweeney: The 1965 baseball team made more errors and had less effective pitching and as a result lost more games than the 1964 team. Since the squads were very similar in personnel, do you think that the 1965 team became overconfident?

Metheny: No, this was the beginning of when we started to add some new athletes, and when you make errors and your pitching does become less effective, and your end result is you’re going to lose more games. This is just what I was saying earlier, that baseball is a game the way the ball bounces.’ And all it takes, is a mental error or a physical error, and when you’re in a close game, it’s a loss. And so it was just the end of our string. And we started to make mistakes that we didn’t make before, but this is what happens to you. And if you can’t shore that up, then you’re going to get beat.

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Sweeney: However, this 1965 team did go on to win 25 games and lose only 5, and won the Mason-Dixon Conference championship with two 5—3 victories over Western Maryland. Would you say that Fred Kovner, who batted over .400, and pitchers Bill Yeargen and Fred Edmonds were the keys to the team’s success?

Metheny: Oh, I certainly would. Fred Kovner was probably the finest outfielder that we’ve ever had. He had all the tools to become a big leaguer, which he did. And pitcher Bill Yeargen, in the beginning he, as a freshman, he didn’t want to be a relief pitcher. But he became our biggest winner and our, biggest asset being a relief pitcher that I think we’ve ever had here. Bill won seven games for us and lost one that year. And Freddy Edmonds was a fine pitcher for us for four years. He did a fine job and, you know, he won the championship game in the NCAA Regionals in Yankee Stadium.

Sweeney: Did your successful baseball teams of the mid—l960’s generate, much support among the student body and the community? Did groups travel to New York to see the team play at Yankee Stadium?

Metheny: The success of our baseball teams in the mid—’60’s did generate a lot of interest. As a matter of fact, we had as many as 1,000 people watching the games out at Larchmont Field. And the student body was enthused, and this kind of generated it. They even wanted football’ here. And so this interest for top—flight athletics just inebriated our student body and blended over into our other sports. Track at that time in there won 29 straight meets. Now the groups -— just a few people followed us to New York City then because it was after the academic year was over that we went. And so the people had scattered. But the interest and the support was just great by everyone!

Sweeney: Do you believe that Fred Kovner is the most outstanding prospect that you ever had for success in the major leagues?

Metheny: Fred was one of them. Fred was an outfielder and we, at the present time I have a boy by the name of John Montague that’s with Montreal in the big leagues, a pitcher. And we have another boy that’s with Baltimore that will be in the big leagues probably the middle of the year, Paul Mitchell. And I’ve had other athletes that have not made the major leagues, but I can honestly say that Fred was the most outstanding outfield prospect for the major leagues that we’ve had, yes.

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Sweeney: In the 1965 NCAA College Division Atlantic Coast Regionals, ODC lost to Union College 3—1 in the championship game. Were you disappointed in this 1965 team’s failure to duplicate the championship won by the 1963 and 1964 editions of the Monarchs?

Metheny: Yes, we were disappointed simply because, if we had won that title, we would have set an NCAA record of winning three championships in a row, which hadn’t been done before. But the irony of the whole thing, as I said, the way the ball bounces, Union College didn’t have pitching depth and they’d used up all their pitchers. So being in final tournament like that, he had to pitch somebody, so he had a catcher that had never pitched before, and he pitched him. And we hit the ball all over the place, but it was at the wrong places, right at the players, and, although we hit the ball well, we couldn’t get the ball to fall for hits, and as a result we got beat in the championship game by a catcher.

Sweeney: I think you’ve already answered the next question about Coach Allen, so we’ll proceed to the following one. Your 1966 baseball team lost its first four games. Had losses from graduation completely disrupted your 1965 team?

Metheny: Yes, in a way. The era of all of those boys being together was over. They had graduated, and now we had to start trying to formulate another team and to continue on. But we didn’t have the depth that year that we had had in the past.

Sweeney: Overall, the ‘66 baseball squad posted a disappointing 10 win —11 loss record. How did you account’ for the fact that the team didn’t improve very much over the course of the season?

Metheny: Well, I’ll tell you, it’s like I just said, that when you bring a new group of boys together you have to mold them into a team and you have to have the strength that we talked about before. We did not have the strength in the middle of our diamond as we had before, and, as a result, by improving our schedules as we went along each year and not having quite the talent we had the year before, we just lost, when the year before we wouldn’t have.

Sweeney: Why were some home baseball games being played at Fort Eustis, which is such a great distance from the campus?

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Metheny: Well, first of all, the service people asked us to come over there and play. And as for public relations and being a military city, we thought it would be a nice gesture to go over there and play some of our games. Also, they had a field that was just out of this world. It was a beautiful field, and by playing over there the athletes got a chance to play on this type field. It was also a morale builder for us.

Sweeney: As athletic director, what responses did you receive as you tried to upgrade the schedule in basketball with stronger, better known opponents in the 1965—68 period?

Metheny: We were upgrading our program, but let me say that we always have let the coaches at Old Dominion University make their own schedule. The athletic director never made the schedule for them. After they made the agreements and that, all we did was make sure we had contracts.

Sweeney: Why was it so difficult to arrange basketball games with Norfolk State back then? It’s pretty difficult today, too.

Metheny: Well, many people have asked us this, and they’re always looking for some undercover means of criticism or something of this type, but that’s not so. I remember many years ago, when I was talking to Coach Fears —— Ernie Fears, who was athletic director at Norfolk State —— about playing basketball. And my comment was, "Ernie," I said, "Ernie, you and I can talk." I said, "We understand each other." I said, "You know the reason that we don’t play isn’t you or isn’t me. It isn’t our coaching staff, but it’s our student body." I said, "You know as well as I do that our students, all it will take is one student to say something to another student, and now we’ have trouble." And he said, "I guess you’re right," he said. And that’s the reason we didn’t get together. Now eventually we did get together, and we played down at Scope, and because of that same reason that I quoted we’ve had to stop the relationship. It’s not the coaches, it’s not the athletic directors, it’s just our students won’t behave.

Sweeney: Why did you arrange a 32—game schedule, much larger than before, including games with the University of Virginia, William and Mary, and Virginia Tech for the 48 days of the 1967 baseball season?

Metheny: Well, to get athletes to come to your institution, you have to play a representative schedule, and they want to come to a school

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that plays quite a few games. Now this sounds like a lot of games, but when you don’t go to school on Saturdays and you can play two games on Saturday and two on Sunday and you don’t miss classes, then it’s a very attractive situation for the athletes and the faculty to accept. And in the spring of the year, if you don’t play double headers, then your schedule will dwindle to almost nothing because of rain or cold or something of that type. And then the athletes won’t come to your institution; you cannot upgrade your program. So we put a great number of games to attract the athlete and also it’s economical to play double headers because you can play like at one institution one year and another institution the following year. And so it only makes one ,trip every other year, so it saves you money. But now it’s getting to the point where everybody, when they come to any place, whether you play home and home or not, they want to play double headers so that they can play more games in less time. This makes for more participation, too, because you have to have more athletes. And so it doesn’t increase your budget a great deal, but it does make it more attractive. And also this year, for instance, we played 36 gaines; we only missed two days of school because we play mostly on Friday afternoons, Saturdays, and Sundays. And so it’s very acceptable to everyone.

Sweeney: Now you’ve already referred to two of the pitchers who left after the 1966 baseball season, John Montague and Dennis Riddleberger. Also Fred Carison left, and I wondered what happened to him?

Metheny: Well, Fred was one of our fine pitchers, and he left school to go into the service, and a very unfortunate thing happened to Carl; he lost his right arm in the service, and so, as a result, Fred wasn’t able to compete. But he was a fine pitcher while he was here; he did a great job. But that’s what happened to Fred. It was a shame.

Sweeney: Why was consideration given to not using the new physical education building at all for basketball games?

Metheny: Well, when we built this building it was built solely for physical education and, matter of fact, it was to be for males only. The women were supposed to have a separate building for themselves. Well, if we had built this building to have athletics in it, we wouldn’t have been able to get the amount of money that we did from the federal government, and we wouldn’t have had this building.

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So it had to be for physical education. And also we built the gymnasium in a rectangular basis which isn’t conducive to good spectator seating. And if we had, we’d have built it in an oval. We also had aspirations of playing all of our games in Norfolk’s Scope. But the rental was so high there that we couldn’t do that; we had to come back into our own building of 5200. And we found out that we made almost as much money here as we did going down there and paying all of that rental fee. So we only play a few of our games down in there and play the rest here.

Sweeney: The 1967 baseball team was considered successful with a 16 win, 12 loss, 2 tie record since it was generally regarded as a rebuilding year. What were the main ingredients in the team’s success?

Metheny: Well, we had a fair group of athletes. We weren’t completely sound, but we did have some dedicate boys such as Tony Zontini, who later went on and attempted minor league professional baseball. We had a little boy that nobody seemed to want, and he came here —— Bob Fender —— and he did a tremendous job for us. And Jim Jones out of Maury High School had a great year hitting. And so, put the few ingredients we had together, we won the games that we did because of this. And being that we were above .500 record is conducive to believing that we were on our way back to building another halfway decent team.

Sweeney: How was your first black baseball player, Arthur "Buttons" Speakes, received by the other players and by the fans, and could you evaluate his contribution to the 1967 team?

Metheny: "Buttons" was one of the finest athletes that I’ve ever had or been associated with. His contribution to the team that year just couldn’t be measured. He was just a tremendous person. He played well on the field, he hit, he ran, he hustled, he did everything that a coach could ask. And as a result he is one of our better players over the years.

Sweeney: Could you discuss the origins of the Old Dominion Kiwanis basketball tournament, and what was your role in its creation?

Metheny: Well, during the regime when I was coaching basketball, we went up to Suffolk for a charity game with Atlantic Christian College so that they could make some money for charity. I do not believe this really had anything to do with the present

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setup. But it could have. It was just a gesture to try to help charities of the Kiwanis Club.

Sweeney: What role did you play in obtaining the 1968 NCAA College Division Eastern Regional Tournament for Old Dominion as a host college? Why was Fort Eustis chosen as the site for the game?

Metheny: Well, we’d been striving for national recognition, and this was one way to achieve this. We asked Fort Eustis if they would like to host it. Well, they like to do things for all of their, personnel, and this was on a national basis, and so they just jumped at it. And being that they had such a fine facility and all of the other aspects that were needed to put on a tournament, such as lodging "and feeding of the teams and so forth, entertainment, that we decided to put it there. And we wanted to host it so that we could get some national recognition. Now we hosted three NCAA Regional .Tournaments over there, and then we hosted two more in Metropolitan Stadium here in Norfolk. So we had it for five straight years. And this helped us with the NCAA, and it helped us to get national recognition.

Sweeney: In 1968 freshman eligibility was restored by the NCAA and the Mason-Dixon Conference for baseball. Why was this reversal of policy made, and what effect did it have on Old Dominion College’s fortunes?

Metheny: Well, this policy was made simply on an economic basis. All across the nation they made freshmen eligible so that they could save money and they wouldn’t need to recruit as many athletes. But this made our team stronger, and it just made it easier for the smaller colleges and universities to compete.

Sweeney: In 1968 Old Dominion college applied unsuccessfully for membership in the Southern Athletic Conference. I was wondering why this application was rejected, and how were you and Professor Herbert Sebren, the chairman of the faculty athletic committee, received at the Southern Conference meeting in Asheville, North Carolina, on the 3rd of May?

Metheny: We went down there to investigate the possibility of getting into the Southern Conference. We were treated very nice. They couldn’t have been on a higher level. And they gave us audience, they listened to our presentation, we got all kinds of favorable comments,

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but they have in their by—laws that you must have football. And this being so, we knew that we could not afford football, and so we left there with the hope that eventually the Southern Conference would change their by—laws in reference to football. And this could very easily be possibly coming up in the next year or so.

Sweeney: At that time in May of ‘68 you indicated that football was definitely coming to Old Dominion; it was just a question of when. Were you aware that President Webb had not changed his opinion on football and remained adamantly opposed to it at Old Dominion College?

Metheny: We knew this, but I don’t believe that this was quite right because President Webb and myself have always been in accord in reference to football. We have never had different thoughts on it. We did go before the student body, and that was when Coach Chandler was athletic director. They wanted football, and we went before them and told them if they would increase their activities fee to $25 a semester that we could have football. And they didn’t want to do that. So as a result the thought of football died. It has arisen two or three times since then, but we are not able to do anything about it. A survey was made across the country as to the cost of football on the different levels. And this was about, I guess, 8 to 10 years ago. Just for football, Notre Dame spent $1 3/4 million. The Atlantic Coast Conference spent $½ million, the Southern Conference spent $1/4 million. And in the Mason—Dixon and that type level, they would either set aside a certain amount and if they went in the hole that was written off the books. See, we weren’t able to do that. We also investigated the possibility of scheduling. And these teams are scheduled from 10 to 15 years ahead, solid. Now who were we going to play? So this is just one of the many problems that we presented to the student body, and it was aired, and football was dropped. It’s a matter of finances, that’s what it boils down to.

Sweeney: How was the intramural sports program developing at the school in the 1960’s?

Metheny: The intramural program since I have been here, and then Coach Carroll was the head of it, and then we had others, and every year it became larger and larger. Intramurals here at Old Dominion University is very popular, and I think that this is

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one of our strong points here at the university. Our fraternities’ and our sororities’ are the backbone of our intramurals. And now’ the independents are becoming stronger, and so the intramural program at present is stronger than it has ever been.

Sweeney: Do you wish to comment on the dispute in 1967 with Mr. James L. Barrett, the director of the news bureau at Lynchburg College, over the press release issued by Old Dominion College comparing Lynchburg’s Wayne Profit unfavorably to Old Dominion’s Bob Pritchett, who, in the opinion of the publicist, should have been chosen the Outstanding Small College Player in Virginia Basketball?

Metheny: Oh, I think this is just a matter of prejudice in liking a certain athlete. I remember many years ago, when Leo Anthony was playing for me, and we were playing Lynchburg, and the boy scored 60 points and didn’t’ play the last three minutes of the game, and after the game the coach was very upset because I let the boy score 60 points. And turn ‘right around and this same Wayne Profit broke Bob Pritchett’s record of 66 points, but they never said anything about that when’ they let him score all those points. You see, why should someone get into it, especially a newspaper person, criticize someone else about an award of this type. Because, when you come down to it, the outstanding athlete in the state or an All American or an All District, it is all publicity done by the newspapers. And this man is a newspaper man. He was the director of the news bureau of Lynchburg College, he’s a sports information director, and certainly he wanted his boy to receive the award. We wanted our boy to receive the award. And so with the publicity end of it, Bob Pritchett got it over Wayne Profit. ‘ And it boils down to publicity. And to say that one boy was better than the other, who knows? I just feel that we shouldn’t get too upset when one boy comes out ahead of another in some type of award like this.

Sweeney: Why was the Olympic size pool in the new health and physical education building almost omitted from the building, and how was this problem resolved?

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Metheny: Well, this came about when the architect told us what he could give us to omit one part of a building in a lump sum. So what we did, we went back to the state and got them to give us 3/4 of a million dollars so that we could complete this building with the pool area. Before we got that, though, we asked the architect to put in the possible facilities so that we could connect up to this building.

Sweeney: During the late 1960’s you served,as baseball coach, athletic director, and chairman of the department of health and physical education. Wasn’t this too heavy a load for one man to carry, and which areas of your responsibility were you most likely to neglect?

Metheny: This was too much of a load to carry, and as a result the staff had trouble catching me or communicating with me or I with them. And so, having so many things to do and such a short time to do it in or being out of town at meetings or with the team or things of this type, it just was too much. And as a result I talked to Mr. Webb about it, and we had a man here on the staff in the economics department, Jim Brady. And he had pitched for Detroit. So I asked Jim if he’d be interested in taking over the ball club and coaching them for that year. And he said that he would like to do it. And, as a result, that allowed me to spend more time with the physical education and as athletic director. And so that’s how it all came about.

Sweeney: So Jim Brady was not hired by this university as baseball coach primarily, he was hired as an economics professor?

Metheny: That’s true.

Sweeney: Your 1968 baseball team won 22 games and lost 18, and they were champions of the Southern Division of the Mason—Dixon Conference. However, they were defeated for the Conference championship by Western Maryland, which won the double header at Larchmont by scores of 10-4 and 8—2. What were the strengths and weaknesses of this team? What was the effect of the heavy schedules started with the University Division opponents?

Metheny: Well, the effect was that, the better competition you play, the better you will get. Also, we were moving up and playing University Division teams simp1y because this would help us to get into tournaments at the end of the year because the criteria to get in a tournament is your record, your strength of your schedule, your pitching depth. And so by playing these better teams, that would enhance this possibility. Now, that year Western Maryland

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had a fine team, and they defeated us. And the year before, it was just the opposite. So we were on a par, the two of us, and it happened to be their year. It wasn’t any excuse for losing or anything of that type, it was just that they did a better job than we did.

Sweeney: Did pitcher Bob Williams and/or third baseman Tony Zontini, who were the most valuable players on this 1968 baseball team, go on to play professionally?

Metheny: Bobby Williams went on in the field of engineering, did not play professional baseball; our third baseman, Tony Zontini, played in Class A Division baseball but did not go on beyond that.

Sweeney: Could you discuss your fall baseball program, which began in the fall of 1967?

Metheny: Well, the reason that fall baseball came to the front is that, in the spring of the year, it’s cold and it’s very difficult to teach fundamentals. And in the fall when it’s warm you can spend more time and get ready for the spring. Now also it can give you all’ the information you need about your athletes, and you can work on it, and then in the spring of the year all of that is behind you and you can start right in preparing for your season. Fall baseball is here to stay because I don’t know anybody that doesn’t like it because it’s now the warmest part of the year.

Sweeney: By 1969 had Old Dominion outgrown the Mason-Dixon Conference athletically? Did you agree with Sonny Allen that the school should quit the Mason—Dixon tournament and go, independent?

Metheny: Yes, in a way I believed that Old Dominion had outgrown the Mason-Dixon Conference because we were winning in it, and it was very difficult for us to schedule games with the Mason— Dixon schools so that we could qualify for the tournaments at the end of the year. The only matter that I did not agree with in the changing from being in a Conference to going independent is that we did not have a goal at the end of the year to play for every year in every sport. And I feel that that is an incentive. Being an independent, you have to be selected by a selection committee of the NCAA as an at—large team to get in tournaments. So it makes it more difficult because if you play in the Conference and you win, then some of these Conferences have automatic qualifications for the

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NCAA post-season tournament. But being an independent that isn’t true. So that was the only part of it that I didn’t care for of going independent.

Sweeney: At the beginning of the 1969 baseball season, you used a system of platooning. Why did you make this choice, and does a college team play enough games to stay sharp if platooning is used?

Metheny: The only reason that I platooned is that I had some boys that didn’t hit as well, for instance, a right—hand pitcher against a right—hand batter, and vice versa, left to left. But then I had to play some boys that played in the outfield one day and then pitched another game. So I had to platoon in different ways, but it was just one of those type things that a coach has to do. To be honest, I’m not in favor of platooning as a constant practice.

Sweeney: Paul Mitchell was a freshman in 1969. Why was it that Mitchell, who has pitched successfully thus far in his professional career, never compiled an outstanding record for Old Dominion?

Metheny: Well, Paul had an unusual quirk that happens in some athletes in that he didn’t perform well as a pitcher in cold weather. But as soon as it’ got warm, he started to gain momentum and always did a fine job. He used to leave here in the spring and go up in the Cape Cod League for playing summer baseball, and he was chosen the most valuable player two years in a row. He just is a hot weather pitcher. It’s one of those things you have to find out about your athletes, and that’s what we found out about Paul. And he still does, the same thing in professional baseball. Once it gets hot, then he performs better.

Sweeney: Could you evaluate the athletic performance of Ron Drews, who was one of your first scholarship players and son of the former major league pitcher Karl Drews? Ron Drews played both basket— ball and baseball here.

Metheny: Ronny was one of the finest athletes and one of the finest students also that’s ever been in this institution. He played basketball and played baseball and played both well. He was just a fine competitor And he was talking to me not long ago in reference to what athletics has done for him in teaching

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him how to compete in the world. He’s that type individual. He learns from athletics what it means to live. He finished his bachelor’s degree here, his master’s degree, and then he finished half of his doctorate. And he found something that he really liked to do, and he’s been very, very successful in it.

Sweeney: Jim Epps pitched a no—hitter against VMI in 1969 and with only one day’s rest returned to the mound to pitch a crucial 7—1 victory over Randolph—Macon. Could you comment on this unusual pitching achievement?

Metheny: Well, Jim pitched a no—hit game against VMI, and, of all things, you’d think that it would be a difficult chore, but everything was easy for him that day. And we had this big game coming up with Macon, and also we were very short in pitchers. Jim, being a strong boy, he came back with one days rest and just did a fine job. You can’t do that all the time, but you can do it, say, once a year.

Sweeney: Did the 1969 team, which posted a 14 and 13 won and lost record, come up to your expectations?

Metheny: Well, any time a team is that close to being .500, they don’t come up to your expectations; but we were struggling at that time, and things weren’t going just as well as we wanted. We didn’t have as many athletes, and we were getting into better competition all the time, too. So it didn’t come up to my expectations.

Sweeney: Did you negotiate with someone off the campus before it was decided that Professor Brady would take your place?

Metheny: No, not at all. I didn’t contact anyone. I happened to know that Jim was,on the campus, and when this came up about not having enough time for my other duties, I just automatically asked Jim, and it ended right there.

Sweeney: How did the coming of Dr. James L. Bugg to the presidency of Old Dominion University affect the development of the athletic program and the health and physical education department?

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Metheny: Well, when Dr. Bugg came here and took over as president of Old Dominion University, I do not believe that he was too well informed the area of athletics and physical education. But he desired to have a Ph.D. at the head of our department, and so as a result he selected Dr. Jim Jarrett to be that person to take over the athletic director’s situation, being as I did not have a doctorate. And, by the way, I was too old to go away and get it, too. So Jim has done a fine job. But it had its effect on our athletics, simply because funds and things just weren’t there, and the philosophy was different.

Sweeney: In January of 1970 Dr. Bugg announced that cuts would have to be made in some athletic expenses because the athletic department was running a $58,000 deficit and that, in his judgment, ^tour athletic anticipation is unrealistic. We were overly optimistic. How did you react to these statements and to the published rumors that you would be relieved of your duties as athletic director and as chairman of the department?

Metheny: Well, this statement is a little bit ambiguous in that we had made these arrangements with President Webb, and we had told him that we’d have to work in a deficit for four to five years until we could get this rolling and on its own feet and so it could make some money. And President Webb understood this and went along with it. The amount of money you have stated here, $58,000, isn’t the true amount. When Dr. Bugg became president, there was $27,000 deficit, and the year that he came here I cut that deficit $9,000. And so when Dr. Jarrett took over there was only $18,000 deficit. And with our philosophy, our athletic anticipation wasn’t unrealistic, and we were not overly optimistic. And I’ve already commented what the reasons were why the change of command in athletic director and chairman of the physical ed. Department occurred.

Sweeney: Why did Sonny Allen’s outstanding basketball teams in 1968 and ‘69 find it so difficult to gain national recognition?

Metheny: Well, see, Sonny had just begun to get his team winning like he wanted them to, and we had not been recognized nationally for many, many years. We got up to # l7 when I was coaching; that was the best we ever did. I don’t believe we’d been in a regional tournament or anything as yet, and so it just wasn’t time yet. It was just a time

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of growing up, and it was just a matter of time before this occurred, which history has proven to be true.

Sweeney: Why did the Old Dominion Intercollegiate Athletic Foundation fail to fulfill its scholarship commitment?

Metheny: Well, it was a change of command with the Foundation, and then it was found that it was more difficult to get monies for scholarships, and there’s many little reasons here and there that didn’t come up to its final wishes. Now, Mr. Wilkins and Mr. Howard had since stepped down from the Athletic Foundation, and with new commands they were trying to get turned around again to get this money. So it was just a lull in the time of securing monies.

Sweeney: How did you feel in the spring of 1970 not to be getting ready for another baseball season after 22 seasons of coaching? Also, at this time it was announced that you would be replaced as athletic director. What was your new role at ODU to be?

Metheny: Well, when I gave up the baseball for that one year, I missed it, but I was trying to do what was best for the department. When it was announced that I’d be replaced as athletic director, I took that in stride. My new role was that, well, I’m a full professor with tenure, and I am the head coach of baseball. And I do teach a full load.

Sweeney: Well, would you say that the principal reason you lost the position of athletic director was the fact that you didn’t have a Ph.D.?

Metheny: Yes, that was the principal reason. And President Bugy wanted to make changes all over the campus, and that was one of them. And usually the athletic department is the first place that changes are made on a campus. That happens all over the United States!

Sweeney: Could you combine the next two questions? I wondered if you felt a new sense of enthusiasm to be getting back on the field as the head baseball coach in 1971, and what kind of talent you inherited from Jim Brady’s 1970 team?

Metheny: Well, I was glad to get back in the realm of baseball coach because that’s my first love. And the talent that was left

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on the team was to lead it a little bit, but we tried to shore that up in the summer by getting some boys. Now, we were a little late, but we did try to get a few boys to help out. At that time we were getting to up our schedule, too, to the University Division type schedule. And this hurt us, too, to knock us down, as far as winning.

Sweeney: I’d like to ask you a question about the location of the baseball games, the site. In 1971 you switched to Powhatan Field, and then you switched back to Larchmont in ‘72. And I wondered if you find that Larchmont is a satisfactory site or whether you’d like to play more games at Metropolitan Park?

Metheny: Well, being as our building is down here on Powhatan Avenue, I thought that it would be much easier to play close to the building if we could. Well, we found out that Powhatan Field was too small and that it would stay wet too often and as a result it was very unsatisfactory. And that was the reason we switched back to Larchmont Field that we’d been playing on for so long. The field is not a satisfactory field. We do not ask the big ACC schools like N.C. State and Carolina and those schools --or South Carolina —— to come here and play simply because we do not have a good facility. Now we do try to play some of our games at Metropolitan Park, which we’have been doing, playing a double header with Richmond each year. We’re hoping next year to add another game there. But I am of the opinion that we should schedule as many contests on our campus as possible simply because I feel that the athletics are not just for the athlete but are for our student body. I just feel that they should be on campus and that we should have a nice facility so that our students would be glad to come and watch a game.

Sweeney: Following that comment a bit, do you think there’s any possibility of getting a baseball stadium on this campus?

Metheny: Well, the President tells us that we won’t get a field until 1980, and it is supposed to go down here at 43rd and Powhatan. Two years ago they asked me to hand in the plans for a new baseball field, and that would be what we needed. And so as a result I did, but as yet we have not received a new baseball field or any physical education fields either.

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Sweeney: What role did 5’6" Jerry Turner and 6’5" Bob Siclari play on the 1971 baseball team?

Metheny: Well, Turner was our leading hitter as a freshman, and Bob Siclari had one of those exceptional years where he did a lot of relief work for us and just did a tremendous job. It was a complete turnaround for Bob from the previous year. And so they played a very important role because they were our two leaders that year.

Sweeney: The 1971 team posted a 21 win, 11 loss, one tie regular season record. This must have been an immense satisfaction to you when you returned to coaching. Would you care to make any additional observations on the ‘71 team?

Metheny: Well, I’ll tell you what the reason was we had this winning season. We had some surprises, and one of them was Turner and the other one was Siclari, that they filled voids that we did’ not expect to be filled. And as a result they were the big’ reason why we came along. Maybe it was that I was all up in spirit and everything; you can never tell. But I got a great deal of satisfaction that we did have a good year of this type.

Sweeney: Could you compare the ‘71 team to the ‘63-’64 teams?

Metheny: The '63—'64 teams were the finest teams I’ve ever had. We had all of the criteria for having a championship team. Although the ‘71 team was a good team, it didn’t ‘have the depth and the overall personnel that the ‘63-’64 teams had.

Sweeney: Why was Jerry Turner, ODU’s top hitter —— he batted .398 -—declared ineligible just prior to the opening of the l971 NCAA College Division Atlantic Regional Baseball Tournament?

Metheny: The reason for this was an oversight on my part and on our athletic director’s part. We still do not know how we missed it. But, when a boy comes out of high school, he has to have a "C" average, a 2.0 average. And Jerry had something like 1.98 point something, which didn’t qualify. And how we missed it I just don’t know. And when we did discover it —— when we got accepted into the Regionals, we went back and checked all of our eligibility, and we found out that Jerry didn’t. And we immediately called the NCAA and told

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them all about this. And they told us that Jerry couldn’t play. But it was just an innocent oversight on our part, and we corrected it before the Regionals, and it hurt us in the Regionals.

Sweeney: The NCAA didn’t penalize you for not having done this before?

Metheny: No, we had never had any reason before for any suspicion of anything. And because we reported it —— the NCAA didn’t come to us; we went to the NCAA and told them what we had found out when we had checked our eligibility sheets for the tournament. So as a result nothing was done about it except the boy couldn’t play.

Sweeney: Could you recall how ODC fared in that 1971 NCAA College Division Tournament?’

Metheny: Yes, it was a 16 double elimination tournament, and Old Dominion finished fourth.

Sweeney: Did the community and the student body support the team in the games at Metropolitan Park?

Metheny: Yes, they supported them in spirit, but it happened to be that it was a very, very bad weekend weather—wise. And we had a very difficult time getting the games in. And, as a result, being cold and rainy, the fans didn’t come to the park.

Sweeney: Have you found the players of today in the last five years less highly motivated and more resentful of authority than those, say, of the early or mid—’60’s?

Metheny: I believe so. The athlete today has so many diversions that they didn’t have at other times that I think that they are less highly motivated. Now, this isn’t true of all the athletes. Some of them are not any different. Now this motivation doesn’t have anything to do with their skill, but they like to be more independent today than they did before.

Sweeney: How did your players react to your order that their long hair be cut at the beginning of the 1972 season, what the newspaper called "H" day?

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Metheny: Well, we did this. This was more of a morale builder in that the players —— it would show that they were willing to sacrifice something that they really wanted to achieve another goal. And we had fun with it. But it wasn’t drastic. All their hair styles were within the accepted styles; they weren’t cut real short. No, we didn’t do that. But I found out that we got a lot of recognition out of it, and the student body constantly asked the boys when is "H" day coming. You know, it’s a little gimmick that the boys accepted because it’s only for two months, and it grows back in a short time.

Sweeney: This 1972 team got off to a very poor start but then recovered for at least a winning season of 18 wins and 16 losses. I was wondering why the poor start and what brought about the recovery?

Metheny: Well, I think it’s trying to get acclimated to the difficulty of the schedule and then finally maturing. Any other reason, I couldn’t say.

Sweeney: Why was Old Dominion invited to the Regional tournament with such a mediocre record?

Metheny: Well, we were the host team, and usually the host team is invited. But this is the first year that this wasn’t adhered to. But we played such a difficult schedule that the selection committee thought that the record wasn’t indicative of the caliber of team that we had for the College Division Tournament.

Sweeney: ODD was eliminated by defeats at the hands of Florida Southern and New Haven College. They did win 2-0 over Adelphi College. Did you feel that the ODD team of ‘72 really belonged in this tournament field?

Metheny: It turned out that we were the third best team in that tournament. Now Florida Southern was the #1 team in the nation, and New Haven came along and they won and went on to the world series, and did very well out there. I think they finished second in the world series. So we were in pretty good competition. And so I feel that we weren’t quite as good as them, but it was indicative that we could compete on a fairly equal level.

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Sweeney: At the beginning of the 1973 season, you expressed some optimism about the team’s chances, especially in regard to pitching depth, then after the team got off to a fairly good start the team’s defense collapsed completely and the Monarchs lost 12 games in a row. I wondered why the original optimism, and how do you account for this complete collapse?

Metheny: Well, we thought that our pitching would be our biggest trouble, and we thought that our defense would be one of our strong points. And it turned out just the opposite. And so what I thought backfired on me, and as a result we lost these games. And in baseball, if you give away runs, you don’t win the close ones. And I think that’s the reason why we lost so much this year is simply because we gave away runs. And our pitching held up, but our defense hurt us.

Sweeney: Why did pitcher Jack Baker never recover the winning form of his freshman season?

Metheny: Well, Jack was a fine pitcher and a great competitor. And I found our that he was our money pitcher. And thereafter he hit all of the key games, I mean the very difficult games. His record isn’t indicative of the type pitcher he was. If we had been a little bit stronger in other places, then Jack would have been a very successful pitcher in college. But he was the one that got all of the difficult assignments.

Sweeney: How did you cope with the problem of team morale during the long 12—game losing streak?

Metheny: Well, this is a very difficult problem to face and cope with. We worked that much harder in practice in trying to shore up our defense, but we just seemed to make a mistake at the wrong time in the game, and as a result there was a long losing streak. And we just kept going after it, and after it until finally we conquered it a little bit.

Sweeney: The Monarchs concluded the season by winning five of their last eight games and finished with 10 wins and 19 losses. Did the team show steady improvement over the last eight games, and do you think you might have done anything differently to improve this overall team performance?

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Metheny: No, I don’t think I could have done anything differently to improve this team’s record. They did improve, but, again, the competition that I had set up for them was a little over our heads, but it was like many years ago, if you ever want to get ahead you have to play more difficult competition, and to find out what we need to do. I did this when I first came here. I did this when we didn’t play freshmen, when we were preparing for the hiring of Coach Allen and to go up in basketball, and now at this time I’m doing the same thing with the hope that it will just be a short time before we grow up and can be a winner again.

Sweeney: By 1974 the baseball schedule was being upgraded to Division I, university level. What were the advantages of this move?

Metheny: Well, it’s like when we wanted to get into the Mason—Dixon Conference years ago. They asked us to become an NCAA member, and they asked us to upgrade the caliber of teams and not play junior colleges’ and things of that type. And now we have decided in our athletic committee that we’re going to try to move up to Division I. Well, so I’m increasing the number of Division I teams so that when the time comes that we are accepted in Division I, we will have already been playing that caliber of athletics and it won’t be such a drastic move overnight. I’m trying to move into it gradually. Also, we have aspirations of getting into the Southern Conference again. And by playing the Southern Conference teams, which are Division I, now, this tells us what we have to do to compete on that level when we get there. So it’s a matter of growing up to the level’ of competition that we’re going to have to play.

Sweeney: What were your grounds for optimism in 1974 for improvement over the dismal record of the ‘73 team?

Metheny: Well, what it was —— I had gone out and I had recruited some good athletes. And my optimism was that I had two pitchers that were what we call "blue chip" athletes. And three days before classes began, Detroit signed one and the New York Yankees signed the other, and that’s what really hurt us this year. My optimism was that with those two boys we could do a fine job. Well, that fell through and as a result we improved

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our season. We won 14 games this past year...

Sweeney: Well, this was ‘74; it was 11 and 19.

Metheny: Oh, I’m sorry. We’ll just have to retract what I said about the "blue chip" athletes because that was in the next year. As far as’ this past season. Well, in this season again we’d picked up some extra athletes that we thought could do the job. And I had gotten a hold of a good catcher, Nate Blake, and it was something we’d needed dearly. I thought with his catching —— that helped us, and then I fell down in some other areas. We just didn’t get over the hump.

Sweeney: So this 1974 team won 11 and lost 19. Did you feel, after the season was over, that they realized any improvement or just about the same performance as 1973?

Metheny: It was about the same performance as ‘73, but there wasn’t any lack of hustle. It seemed that the boys worked even harder. But we just didn’t have enough talent. I don’t like to say lack of talent because then it takes in each boy, and I didn’t mean that they didn’t have the talent, it’s just that we didn’t have enough of it. And I think that was our major problem. But our big problem was, too, that we didn’t have enough pitching in numbers. We had some boys, but we didn’t have enough to be able to compete day in and day out with this type of schedule.

Sweeney: Could you comment on Bob Creekmore setting a new Old Dominion University career hit record of 126?

Metheny: Well, Bobby was a great competitor and a great athlete. And he broke a long-standing record of Fred Kovner’s. And for a boy to get 126 hits, that’s quite a few hits. But he was very fast afoot, and he was a deft little hitter. He did a fine job for us for four years. He was captain his senior year, too.

Sweeney: What did you resolve to do to rebuild Old Dominion’s victorious tradition in baseball?

Metheny: Well, what I’m trying to do is to get sufficient pitching, our hitting above what it has been, plus to find a, couple of

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boys that can hit the home run rather consistently. And the other is to shore up our fielding or our defense. And ‘with these three ingredients, if I can do this, we can get back to a level of where we were in the middle ‘60’s.

Sweeney: The 1975 version of the Monarchs experienced another losing season, 14 Victories and 21 defeats. However, the team did give’ certain indications of better times ahead. I wonder if you could comment on the season just past, especially on the play of pitcher Brian Campbell, pitcher—outfielder Don Hauck, and Dan McCarthy, the outstanding hitter on the team?

Metheny: Well, as I say, we’d improved on our wins, but if it hadn’t been for the loss of those two pitchers just before the season happened when they were signed by the major leagues, I feel that we would have had above a .500 record. Brian Campbell is a sophomore, did a tremendous job. He did the finest job as far as improvement of any athlete we have. He is going to be a fine pitcher. Pitcher—outfielder DonHauck, well, he has done a great jo well, he has done a great job for us. Matter of fact, he was our leading pitcher this year, and for the coming year I’m going to have him pitch even more. Danny McCarthy was kind of a Cinderella athlete. As a freshman he got a hit his first time at the plate and never got another one the rest of the year. And this year we’ve worked on him, and he’s worked diligently, and now he’s our leading hitter; he hit .425. So he was quite a surprise, and I think that he’s going to help us in the next year in that he’s filled a hole.

Sweeney : Could you give me the names of those pitchers that were signed by the major league teams?

Metheny: They were Fydrich from Worcester Academy and Quasney from right down here at Kellam.

Sweeney: They never played for Old Dominion?

Metheny: No, they never played. Before they ever got to school, they were signed.

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Metheny: I think college baseball now is going to be the salvation of the major leagues. And some years ago I gave a plan before the NCAA, and it may come to fruition if things don’t improve as far as the minor leagues for professionals. The colleges are really the only area where they can play top competition and they can be seen regularly by the big league scouts. I feel sure that, financially speaking, that the colleges are the salvation of professional baseball.

Sweeney: Why do you schedule so many games in a season?

Metheny: Well, as I mentioned earlier, you have to make the schedule attractive to the athlete, or he’ll go to other to the athlete, or he’ll go to other schools that play the same number of games. It’s gotten so that the minimum amount of games that you can play are scheduled, around 35, and also have a fall program besides because athletes can go to the far West or they can go to the far South, and they can play 75 to 100 ball games. Whereas in the other areas they play 35. If you don’t schedule 35, then you won’t get the good athletes and your program will deteriorate.

Sweeney: Under the new university calendar the baseball schedule was severely abbreviated in time span. Could not you schedule some games after final exams?

Metheny: Well, finances wouldn’t allow us to do this. Yes, you can schedule after exams, but then the student body leaves, and all that are on campus would be the athletes, and this would be a tremendous expense. And that’s the reason we don’t schedule after the exams. By the way, the NCAA Regionals and the world series is played after exams, but if you’re fortunate enough to win and go on, you’re not on campus anyway.

Sweeney: How about the baseball student athlete prospects that you are currently finding. Would you like to give any information about any of the young men who have signed grants-in-aid or declared their intention to come to Old Dominion?

Metheny: Well, optimism is apparent because I have been out recruiting a great deal, and we have signed a couple of boys. And I’ve got four or five more that I want to sign, plus there’s going to be 8 to 10 walk—ons that I know about, and so I feel that, if I can finalize all of these signees and that, that we’ll be doing all right or much better than we have done the last

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two or three years. And we did sign a boy by the name of Tony Lagos from Fall River, Massachusetts, that has a very fine record as a pitcher. And he will probably be’ drafted by the major leagues, but he is going to come to school. We are also after another boy that will be drafted. We haven’t signed him yet, but he’s already said he’s coming. And so I can’t give you his name, but this is the type athlete that we’re after, and we need these to come ahead. But we’re also after some fine students. We've got one boy coming to school, a short stop, that has a 3.8 average and is eighth from the top of his graduating class of 361.

Sweeney: What is the scholarship picture in baseball at Old Dominion today?

Metheny: Well, the scholarship picture in baseball is the same as for all the other sports outside of basketball. It isn’t sufficient. In baseball we get $6,000 to spread over four years, which is an average of $1,500. But we are now going to try to solicit scholarship money for baseball, and we have some programs just about to be kicked off that will give us some scholarship funds for another year, we hope.

Sweeney: Could you tell me about a national television program hosted by Joe Garagiola, the former major league catcher, upon which you and the 1975 team will soon appear?

Metheny: Well, when we were in Atlanta playing Georgia Tech, a sports writer came to me before the game and was looking for a human interest story, and’ he just asked me a few questions in reference to how we travel and our finances and what we had to do to make it and so forth, and he wrote a very nice article. Well, this got in the hands of Joe Garagiola, who is on television, and he contacted us that he wanted to do a report on college baseball to be presented before the Monday night game of the week.’ And that would give us national observance all over. Anyway, he came to us when we were playing in Lexington, Virginia, against Washington and Lee. And he started about 9:00 in the morning until after the first game of our double header, which ended about 3:00. And in this six hours he spoke to us, he rode with us; they took the audio and they also filmed from the front seat of our limousine inside. They filmed from the outside. Then they interviewed our captain, Cy Brinkley, and our leading hitter, Dan Mccarthy. They talked to me about a, half hour while we were walking around the field, then during the game

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they televised from behind home plate and also from the rear of the dugout to get the game atmosphere. They did a tremendous amount of’ work, and they’ll get 10 or 15 minutes of time on the air. It will be a first for us, for Old Dominion University. It will give us national recognition, maybe international, and it should help our recruiting program tremendously.

Sweeney: What is the state, then, of baseball at Old Dominion University’ today, and what are its future prospects?

Metheny: Well, with our scholarship program —— we’ve been given a brand new Volvo by the Volvo people to raffle off -- we are going to try to take this money for baseball scholarships and divide it up and then every four years repeat this type of raffle. And we hope that that will give us the money we need to recruit. If we can do what we have aspirations of doing, we hope to get $50,000 out of this raffle and probably set it up on a $10,000 scholarship fund a year, and then repeat it every four years, and so, as a result we’ll have a little nest egg that we can always go back upon. And by being able to do this, we’ll be able to compete with the teams, whomever we may play. And the other requirement that we need is a new field. If we get a new field, then we can have these big universities come here, and it will make our program just bounce.

Sweeney: What have been your greatest satisfactions and disappointments during your career at Norfolk Division and later Old Dominion College and University?

Metheny: Oh, I’ve had so many things happen here that were pleasant to me. Disappointments? Oh, you forget them, you roll with them. I guess one of the disappointments I had was when we lost in Yankee Stadium that one time in the Regionals. Some of the high points were when we won the NCAA a couple of times. We won the Mason—Dixon Conference four times. We won the Little Eight six or eight times. Those are high points. I think one of the high points was when we were successful to get the money to build this new building. I think that was a high point. Being chosen coach of the year and just having your boys do so well out in the business world or in the sports world. I think they are the high points of my career in that I’ve got doctors, lawyers, bank presidents, teachers, principals. They’ve all gone out, and for them to come back and say that the things that they

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learned in baseball have stood them in good stead, I think those are the high points. The development of the university —— I came here when there was, I guess, between 200 and 250 students; now there’s over 11,000. To be able to grow up with the university, the athletic program, to see it go from nothing to something is just pleasing to me. And to know that things have progressed in the manner that they have, I think that that’s what we’re here for, and that’s what makes me feel good. Disappointments -- I haven’t had many. I don’t even talk about them.

Sweeney: Thank you very much, Coach Metheny.