Professor Sweeney: We are with Ed Pearce, who is going to be reminiscing about some of his experiences at the Norfolk Division, where he was a student in 1934 and 1935. He'll talk about some of the faculty, some of the social events and generally what it was like to be a student at the Norfolk Division in those days Mr. Pearce.

Pearce: Thank you. I think that the first thing that I would consider is the fact that all the students were day students. All of them were local students. We had very few out of town students, except maybe a few from Carolina but most were from Norfolk, Portsmouth and Newport News. This did make it more difficult because it seemed more like an extension of high school than it did college.

We had some athletic teams then. Not a great deal, but we did have a football team. Tommy Scott was the coach at that time. He was an ole VMI boy. Instead of the team playing a lot of other colleges, they used to almost play like intramurals. In other words, they would play the Imps Club and the only thing that you would have in the way of an advertisement would be a sign stuck up in the hall on the chair railing that simply said "IMPS VS VPI TODAY" and that would be all. Of course, at the time, the only building that we had was the old Larchmont School that has since been demolished.

Professor Sweeney: Are there any stories about Tommy Scott? Like when Tommy went to the Orange Bowl, or anything?

Pearce: No, I knew Tommy pretty well, but I didn't... I don't know any stories about...his daughter could probably do better than I could on that. You know Suggie Harrison?

Professor Sweeney: Um hum.

Pearce: That is his daughter. She is still quite active in the school here. You know she does a lot with the women's basketball team and various other phases of the athletic program. She is one of the champion tennis players in the area. You know, in fact, she has a national title at the present time. She could tell you a lot of things about Tommy. Of course, they used to say that Tommy worked his way through VMI playing cards and I am not so sure that it wasn't true. (laugh)

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We used to play Maury and some small colleges. Seems to me some school like Lewisburg or something used to come here to play football.

One of the other things that I remember about the early part of the school is that we used to have one room in the basement which was run by a young fellow who was named "Bud". Of course, it was pretty racy to be smoking and playing cards at that time. Some of the boys would play cards for a penny or a nickel or something like that. Have seen the time that Dean Hodges would walk in and catch them playing blackjack or poker and I don't think that Dean Hodges would ever really expel anyone for something like that. Of course, it left peculiar feelings because it wasn't allowed at that time at all; nothing was allowed. It was very, very strict.

Another thing was the College Shop. The College Shop was where the parking lot now is to the south of the Larchmont School. It was just a very small building and it was run by a fellow named Robertson, who had been a former football star at Maury and he was a pretty prominent fellow here in town. He owned a barbeque stand at Colley and 21st Street. He was almost a legend himself. He had this little college shop and we used to congregate there afternoons and a lot of evenings. We used to play cards in there. A lot of the college fellows from William and Mary in Williamsburg and UVA and different ones like that would come in there in the evenings and we used to have a little session where we would do the mental puzzles and logic puzzles trying to see who could solve the problem of the man with the red dots on his son's forehead and other similar type puzzles like that, which were purely logic. We would congregate there in the evenings and have Coca-Cola for a nickel; even then that was pretty big money.

Another thing that I remember was that mostly everybody who went to school worked. They worked in the afternoons, they worked in the evenings. Most of them had jobs. I guess that was because they were local and because the times were tight I worked a year between the two years that I was here, as a runner at the National Bank of Commerce and Trust, which is what it was then. I made $25.00 a month. I told them that I was going to leave. They said, "Well, we were just getting ready to give you a raise." I asked them how much of a raise and they said, "$35.00 a month". But, I did stop anyway, to come back to school.

Going on to the school itself, I remember a lot of the faculty members. I remember Edward Lee White (BS, MS Instructor in Graphics and Mathematics). He was a very neat fellow. I guess that he still is. He was a very neat in his teaching also. I remember that he taught me engineering drawing. He was very, very hard on you. He didn't allow any smudges, he

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didn't allow any thick lines. He was very, very strict. When you made your point on the drawing, you made them with a needle stuck in a cork, so that they would not be evident at all, when the drawing was completed. I think that he was an excellent teacher, but very, very strict.

Then, I remember Lee Smith (Alva Lee Smith, BS Inst. in Mathematics). I had him for one math class. I think he was also a excellent teacher. He used to have a little funny way of expressing himself. I mean he would say, "Now ladies and gentlemen...", as if he were addressing a large group of people when he really had maybe a small class. But, I know that one of the things that I remember about him was that he was one of the first teachers that would allow you to take your exams home and do it home, if you wanted. Of course, it was so difficult that it didn't make any difference. You had enough reference work and so forth that to really complete it, he didn't care whether you used your book or not. In other words, we were using our books quite a bit at the tables, but the exams were so tough, we could do them at home and it would not make any difference. The only thing that you had to do was pledge that you didn't get help.

For English, I had Dr. Gray (Ernest Weston Gray, Ph.D, Assoc. Prof. of English). Dr. Gray was a very neat little fellow. He was sort of a quiet man. He reminded me of a penguin for some reason or other.. I guess it was the way he sort of walked, holding his head and shoulders back. He was another good teacher. He had a great sense of humor. I used to like to write things for him. I still have a bunch of them. I think that his greatest comment to me was, "You have to decide whether you want to be serious or funny." That was a typical comment that he would put on your papers.

Then Mr. Harrington was the head of the English Department, at that time. He was a real fine teacher, also. I think that he also taught classes as well as being head of the department. In fact, I think I had a math class under Eddie White, also. I think they doubled up, so to speak.

The Dean, of course, was Dean Hodges at that time. He was a little short fellow and almost like a small Santa Claus. He would walk around and talk to people all over the small campus.

These are the principal ones that I remember. I am sure that there are some others.

Professor Sweeney: Did Dean Hodges have a good rapport with his students? I have heard that he was very, very nice to them.

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Pearce: Very much so. He knew them all by name. He was a nice little fellow. I think that he had a son who went out here when I went here, too. I can't recall right off hand any other professors, but there were some others here, I'm sure.

Professor Sweeney: Did you come to school on the streetcar?

Pearce: I probably walked most of the time. I lived in Colonial Place at that time. I probably walked or maybe I got a ride with someone. I didn't generally ride a bus, I don't think. I have ridden the bus, but it was very inconvenient. You had to ride down to 21st Street. Sometimes, I am sure that I bummed a ride, too.

Professor Sweeney: Did many of the students take the streetcar?

Pearce: I don't think that many of them did, except the ones maybe from Portsmouth. Of course, they all came. We did take the Streetcar some days, I know. I remember meeting up with them about at 25th and Granby, where the streetcar turned to come over to Hampton Boulevard. We would meet up with a bunch of them who would be coming over from Portsmouth.

We had several clubs and all of them managed to keep a dance almost every week. Of course, the girls that were here and also from some of the high schools were made sponsors. That was part of our encouraging people to come to Old Dominion or to VPI, at our Norfolk Division. Back during that time, they would say that there was going to be a VPI dance given by the College of William and Mary, Norfolk Division because the Norfolk Division College of William and Mary took precedence over VPI. But that isn't necessarily fact. I mean, the VPI section was right full size, at that time. There were mostly men, of course.

Also, the two schools competed against each other. In other words, the VPI would have teams that would compete against the William and Mary teams as well as the club teams. The grading system was different then, too. The grading at VPI was a mark of 60 to pass which was worked up to be as difficult as if it were 70 or 75, which it was at William and Mary Norfolk Division. That was something to be argued at the Old Dominion Shop . Which was easier? Which school had the easier system on account of the different grading systems?

They did have a lot of good dances. The different clubs had the initiations like fraternities. There were no fraternities at all, at that time. They would have the initiations down at Virginia Beach and everyone would congregate at one particular hotel and they would give the goats their initiation.

Professor Sweeney: Who played at these dances?

Pearce: At the dances we had, the High Hatters, you might say were the official orchestra of the Norfolk Division of William and Mary.

Professor Sweeney: Were they students?

Pearce: Some of them were students and some were former students. They did have a very, very fine band. They played for an awful lot of dances for the college and also outside. They, they had another band, which lasted until just a very few years ago. That was George Arline and his Orchestra. Of course, they had several other local bands, such as Clark Godffrey. He played at a lot of the dances then. Of course, when they had anything real big then, (if they had enough money), they could get out of town bands. Some of the bands they did get are now nationally known bands. Les Brown, for instance was here to play at one of our dances, before. I know, we had him in high school at one of the fraternity dances. We have had a lot of the bands which are now top national bands that were at one time out of North Carolina or maybe one of the colleges playing for $75.00 or less (laugh). You know, I wish I had brought something that I have at home. I have an estimate from a band that was given to me, when I was at the VPI Club. It was from the leader of a band. He was going to furnish me a 12-piece band for $55.00. That band still exists today. The man who runs it is a pretty old fellow, but he still exists today. He has sort of a large band as opposed to the combos that they have now.

It seems to take care of most of the things that I can think of right now. I do have probably some other pictures like the picture of a group of girls who were in the Tri-K or Alpha Club or something like that. There are some people I think might help you if you were to contact them. There is a fellow over in Portsmouth, named I. J. Richardson, who played on the football team. Then Suggie Harrison. I think if you contacted her, she could give you some insight on Tommy Scott, the coach, since she is his daughter. And then there is a fellow named Arnold and I cannot think of his last name, but he was big in the VPI club.

Professor Sweeney: Is Arnold his first name?

Pearce: No, Arnold is his last name. His name is James Arnold, I am pretty sure. I might come up with something on that. If I do, I will call you on it. I think that Bill Mayo who teaches here at night, might have something for you. William Mayo, is a CPA and teaches here at night; he has for twenty years or more. He went out here for a while.