Sweeney: Today I'm pleased to be speaking with Dean Stanley R. Pliska of the School of General Studies. Dr. Pliska, I'd like some information about your background and your academic preparation and what careers you might have been interested in as a young man.

Pliska: Well, since this is an ODU interview, I may begin by saying that I have been here since 1946. Upon discharge from the Air Force in March of that year, I took a few months' vacation, and I was fortunate enough to get a position here at the Norfolk Division of the College of William and Mary. Originally, I'm from Pennsylvania. As the catalog will show, I received my degrees from Penn State University, Overland, and Columbia University. As far as my careers or my early intentions, believe it or not, I always wanted to be a teacher. And I don't think I regretted any one year or any one moment of this particular vocation.

Sweeney: Could you tell me specifically why you came to

2

Norfolk to teach at the College of William and Mary? Was anyone influential in making--your coming here?

Pliska: Well, the reason I came to the Norfolk Division of William and Mary was because I considered it an opportunity to teach on the college level. As I probably mentioned--as I mentioned before, that I was interested in high school teaching. And here I looked upon it an an opportunity that, even if I went back into high school teaching, I would be able to tell my students somewhere in some high school throughout this broad land of ours that there was a faculty member in this particular high school who even had experience teaching on a college level. And the years I had at ODU were very interesting, and again I say I never regretted the fact that I did accept the position to come to the Norfolk Division.

Sweeney: Could you describe your first impressions of the city of Norfolk and the college and the students you had when you came here?

Pliska: Well, coming from Oil City, Pennsylvania, with a population of 17,000 people, I was really impressed with Norfolk on my first visit. Of course, it was an old city, but on the other hand it still was a thriving and teeming city. And when one went to the business section in town, sometimes the sidewalks were five deep with people. Norfolk did not begin expanding into the suburbs, and the business district was still really a congested, thriving, busy community. As far as the college is concerned, I was really impressed. The one Sunday I came here for my interview - I came here for the Saturday and stayed for the Sunday -- I found the college to be located in a good residential area, it had a beautiful campus, and I think it all looked very inviting. And the fact that the Washington Redskins were playing an exhibition game that Sunday I think added to the college atmosphere. Now, as far as the students are concerned, I would say my first impression that year that I was here, in '46, or I should say the first year, a good many of the students were mature, a good many of them were just out of the service. Most of them felt that they were already four years behind; there was a lot of work to do, a lot of catching up to do, and all of them wanted to get on with the job. And one of the comments we heard in those years from the high school teachers as well as the college was that these 18- and 19-year-old students, who were just getting out of high school, really found themselves in a mature environment which helped not only themselves but at the same time the entire student body.

Sweeney: I read that you became involved in registering students for the University of Virginia's extension graduate classes in Norfolk. Could you tell me how that came about?

Pliska: Well, that started some time in '49 or '50. At that time we were a junior college. However, there was a great need for courses beyond the sophomore year. And, at that time, even though it wasn't in writing, somehow the understanding got around the state that only three colleges or universities could offer courses in extension -- those colleges being VPI, the University of Virginia, and the College of William and Mary. So when there was this demand by the people of Norfolk for additional advanced courses, President Webb -- Director Webb, at that time -- tried to do everything he possibly could to make these opportunities available. And since we as a junior college weren't able to offer these courses, the University of Virginia stepped in. Now, I was approached

3

by Franklin Bacon, the director of the University of Virginia extension at that time -- no doubt my name must have been supplied by Dr. Webb -- to ask--asking me whether or not I would be willing to assume the supervision of the extension program, which I did. And for this service I was awarded the munificent sum of something like $200 a semester. However, we did offer graduate courses, and in some cases we even offered junior and senior level courses. I know we offered a course in Latin American history, we offered courses in cost accounting, in taxing. These were beyond the sophomore level, and there was a big demand for these courses. But the most popular courses in this University of Virginia extension at that time were graduate courses needed by the Norfolk teachers.

Sweeney: At one point a black man by the name of G. W. C. Brown applied for admission to the University of Virginia's extension program -- about 1950. Could you tell me how you dealt with that application?

Pliska: Well, as far as the application is concerned, I believe Professor Brown, I think later Dr. Brown, applied directly to the University of Virginia. I do remember registering him, but as far as his application is concerned, that was processed by the Charlottesville campus. I do remember--I don't remember whether he was alone at that time; as I recall I think there were about three or four other black students who were the first ones admitted in that particular year. And even though there was some anticipation that there might be some protest or so, that particular evening in which he did come to class, of course, he came through almost as an unnoticed person. He came to class, classes started, no one paid any attention to him as far as a black individual.

Sweeney: When did this connection with the University of Virginia end?

Pliska: I would say sometime around '43--I mean '53 or '54. At that time the extension program expanded. The university began offering courses at Granby High School and at Virginia Beach, at Portsmouth, and I think the university needed somebody other than a part-time supervisor. Incidentally, my salary by then had been increased to $400 a semester, but that still wasn't enough, and also, I might say that by 1954 William and Mary began getting into the picture, began offering extension courses of its own, and there might have been a conflict of interest, maybe split loyalty, and for that reason I stayed with William and Mary, and the University of Virginia employed a full-time coordinator for its extension program here in the Hampton Roads area.

4

Sweeney: In the early 1950's several professors became involved in a television course entitled "Trouble Spots Around the World." Could you tell me something about this?

Pliska: Yes, I recall that was a 15-minute program. I believe we went on the air about 2:15; it was every Tuesday or every Thursday. There were several departments participating in the program. The people with whom I worked most closely were Bill Whitehurst, now Congressman Whitehurst, and Professor Robert Stern. And normally the way we would work, we would find a trouble spot; it might be the Near East, it might be the Caribbean, it might be some other part of the world. And then we came out with a 15-minute analysis saying something about the geography, something about the people, and trying to explain what the difficulty, what the problem, what the possible solution might be.

Sweeney: I would like to know something about the student government in the 1950's, particularly the Student Senate, what powers, if any, it had and whether many of the students or just a few took an interest in it?

Pliska: Well, the Student Senate in the '50's was probably equivalent to what we may call a student government. There was a President, there was a Vice President; a Secretary-Treasurer. I think there were about nine people on--or nine students on the Senate. And these were mostly--this was mostly a recommending body. They were elected by the students, but necessarily they did not report to the students as a constituent body. A good many of the projects involving the university, as pep rallies, dances, and so forth, were sponsored by the Student Senate. But on the other hand they were also interested in library hours, in the honor system, and I remember one of the cases there, a very interesting one in those days, in which the Student Senate felt pride in being able to do something for the students, was to eliminate the $5 fine for cutting classes before a holiday and after a holiday. I might recall that a good many colleges and universities at that time imposed such a fine. The students here at the Norfolk Division felt this was unfair, that it would not be abused, and even though the administration hesitated at first, the students were able to win their point and the $5 fines were eliminated on any classes cut before and after the holidays.

Sweeney: During the early 1950's did the students and the faculty have a strong desire to move in the direction of a four-year college or did they prefer to just stay a community college?

5

Pliska: No, from my first year at the Norfolk Division, the students as well as the faculty aspired and worked towards a four-year degree. Now, we didn't realize it was going to come as soon as it did, because by the middle of the '50's the Norfolk Division did become the Norfolk College of William and Mary. And there were several minor campaigns on the campus and in town, and one thing that really impressed me is we tried to prepare ourselves for this four-year school. And the best way to prepare ourselves for it was to have a good junior college. And at that time we were proud of the fact, thinking that we were about the best junior college in the United States. One study, I think, really confirmed our opinion, and that is the registrar, I believe, around 1952 or '53 made a study of the Norfolk Division students who finished our school here, graduated, and went on to other schools. The statistical study that year indicated that 92% of them did as well or better as they were doing at ODU. And this certainly was a very impressive statistical study, and we all took great pride in that analysis.

Sweeney: In 1953, was the--this was not the self-evaluation study that you just referred to - no. In 1953, you completed a so-called self-evaluation study of the college with Professors MacDonald and Professor Akers. Could you recall how this study was undertaken and the conclusions that you might have reached?

Pliska: Well, as far as the origin is concerned, I'm not sure. Dr. Webb, I'm certain, will probably have the reason for it. No doubt it came from the Williamsburg campus. But as I recall this was a college-wide study and as I further recall every member on the faculty was involved. The study was divided into three groups. One, I believe, dealt with administration, another one dealt with public services, and then the third one dealt with the academic matters. I was the director or captain or whatever you may call the leaders of each one of these groups, in charge of the academic program. Now under me were committees, and each committee was headed by a chairman. And in most cases these were divided according to departments, so each department made a study of its activities, of its faculty, of its aspirations. These, then, were combined into each one of these three categories which I mentioned. They in turn were presented to Professor Webb, who in turn compiled it and passed it on to the mother college at William and Mary. You mentioned 1953. I don't know whether our study, whether this was some sort of a survey as to whether or not we were ready for a four-year degree, but if you will remember a few years later we were granted four-year status. So no doubt this study, the self-evaluation, may have contributed to this new status of the college.

6

Sweeney: Do you recall another television program which you were involved in called "Sign Posts" in 1954?

Pliska: Yes, this was a university-wide program. Dr. Hawn of our music department was the director, the coordinator of this program. And I know Bill Whitehurst and Bob Stern and I felt good because our 15-minute programs apparently did not eliminate the university as a participant in television programs. And this, we also were elevated to a better position as far as time is concerned, because these programs were offered on a Sunday afternoon somewhere around 3:00 or 4:00, every Sunday afternoon. A program would be prepared by three or four people. They might be from one particular department, or they might be sort of an ad hoc group dealing and discussing a particular topic. And the one that I remember, in which I participated, dealt with Medieval cathedrals, the history of France; there were other historical studies that we conducted. But on the other hand the business department, the sociology department, the psychology department, had their days and also had their programs in which they made presentations to the Norfolk public.

Sweeney: Could you tell me what courses you taught during those early years on the campus?

Pliska: Well, the first year I came here supposedly to teach American history, but I wasn't the first historian on the scene, so I ended up teaching European history and two courses in sociology. However, in the second, third, and fourth years I began branching into American history, which was my specialty. I remember the first year I had one section of American history, what now is known as 201-202, and fortunately the number of students increased. So the second year I taught the course we were up to two sections, then it got up to three sections, and it continued to expand and multiply until at present I don't know how many American history courses are taught, or how many sections, but I know it certainly is a large number. In addition to that, later on I taught courses in geography as well.

Sweeney: Did you ever consider leaving the junior college to go on to a four-year college or university elsewhere?

Pliska: No, I didn't because the blending of circumstances was such I couldn't very well consider going into a senior college until I had a doctoral degree. And about the time I got my doctorate, which was in 1955, the Norfolk Division of the College of William and Mary was also ready for four-year status. So if

7

I had any aspirations, I could find them and meet them right here on this campus because around 1955, when I would have been ready, looking for a four-year college I happened to have one right here at home.

Sweeney: You were the sponsor of the Honor Council back in 1955. Do you think that the Honor Council played any significant role on campus back then?

Pliska: It played a significant role, and I think that the students abided by the code, the honor code, more so than they do now. And to be more specific, I think they participated in the procedure and the policy where they actually did report infractions and were willing to testify against their fellow students. Now as I recall, most of the work that was done by the Honor Council at that time was to publicize the honor code, make certain that the students understood it. We went through several procedures of having students sign...papers that they understood it, that this was--that they were informed of it. This later was published in the local newspapers or in the school papers, and most of the effort, I would say, and energy of this group went into the publicity accorded this particular code.

Sweeney: You were involved in obtaining books for the new library which was being constructed in the late 1950's. How did you go about getting books for the library, which they didn't have the funds to purchase?

Pliska: Now, here again, a number of us on the faculty were interested in doing something. We were getting a new building, but on the other hand the state did not appropriate money for the books, so Professor Webb at that time appointed a committee to see whether something cou1d be done. I remember Dr. Vogan of the music department was quite active. He and I explored the possibility of getting professional fundraisers to come to Norfolk and organize a campaign so that we could get money in order to support the new library or at least to provide the necessary books. However, after investigating the fundraising agencies, we made an appointment with Mr. Sam Northern of Virginia National Bank--National Bank of Commerce, I believe it was known in those days, and a delegation of us, I think the entire committee of about seven or eight, including Professor Webb, went down. And, as I recall, Sam Northern at that time told us that it probably would be better for us not to go through a professional agency. But he felt that if

8

the citizens of Norfolk were interested, which he thought they were, we probably could do the job here in town ourselves. He referred to the community fund drives -- Norfolk always went over. We needed no professional fundraisers to do it. And I believe it was at this time that Mr. Northern took it upon himself to see what he could do. And it's at this time that, I would say that the faculty members began working on the campus, whereas Professor Webb with his advisors began working with Mr. Northern in raising the money. As I recall, I think something between $80,000 and $100,000 was eventually raised for the library. As far as the other members of the faculty are concerned, we then began concentrating our attention on the securing of as many books as we possibly could. And those really were gay, lively days at ODU. Each fraternity tried to outdo the other fraternity in getting and bringing in as many books as we can. I remember some of the fraternities getting trucks, going around the community, going door to door, collecting the books. Of course all of this was announced in advance, so therefore the people of the community knew that these trucks would appear in their area, and the contributions were made. Now a good many of the books, of course, were not useful as far as the college library was concerned. I don't know how many copies of John Gunther's Inside Asia and Inside Latin America and Inside Europe we got. We got a good many of the books which were, we might say, books saved by people belonging to various book clubs. But on the other hand there also were a good many encyclopedias, a good many reference books which could be used by a college library, and no doubt a good many of them -- or some of them, maybe I should qualify the statement -- are still being used today.

Sweeney: You sought your doctorate in education and not history, even though your doctoral thesis seems to be on a historical topic. I was wondering why you chose the field of education?

Pliska: Well, the reason I chose the field of education, I was interested in getting a degree in the teaching of history. And at first, there, when I first went to Columbia, I passed my qualifying exams, or I should say my language exams, both for a doctor of education and a doctor--a Ph.D. But then as I continued with the work, I felt that probably a doctor of education would suit my purpose better. And the reason there seems to be a contradiction of getting a doctor of education and yet doing

9

a historical study is because at that time Columbia University had three options for its candidates for the doctor of education. A candidate could write a research paper connected with his work on the job, we may say, perhaps some sort of analysis of a superintendent in a city, or it might be a college administrator in one particular aspect of college administration. That was one type of research project acceptable. Another type might be a research project in the library dealing with education itself, tracing--historically tracing a certain educational development or maybe the development of a particular discipline. And then the third option was to do research in one's discipline for which one was preparing himself in the teaching field. In my particular case, since I was preparing myself to teach history, and having done some work on Polish Americans in my bachelor degree days and my master degree days, I just continued the work in this respect.

Sweeney: I notice from the press accounts and from the school newspapers that you served in many different capacities as faculty sponsor of various groups and social functions. Was it a part of your philosophy of education to maintain a close contact with the students in their extracurricular activities?

Pliska: By all means. I think any college, any university centers around one element, and that one element is the student. All the services that we provide in the classroom and outside of the classroom are for the benefit of the student, to give him the academic background but at the same time to provide a rich and many-sided personality. Now I don't mean that extracurricular activities should be overdone, and by extracurricular activities I don't mean dances and parties, I mean interest clubs, I mean various speeches, I mean various forums. And in those earlier days there was a good deal of that done. I'm sorry to say that a good many faculty members today, not a good many, but some, look upon the students as a necessary evil. They have other objectives, other interests, and sometimes I think that the students are ignored. I'm not saying that there were not such faculty members in those days, but on the other hand we also had a good number who were interested in the welfare of the student, not only in the classroom but also outside of the classroom as well.

10

Sweeney: In 1955 you became the acting chairman of the social studies department. What duties did this chairmanship involve?

Pliska: Well, this was a transitional period between our junior college days and our four year college period. And at that time, as a junior college, we didn't have departments big enough to have chairmen. I believe at that time Bill Whitehurst and I were the history department, if it could be called so. Bob Stern and Marie Chatham were the political science department. Andy Kunyogi was the philosophy department. So in those years the so-called Division, I believe it was called, of Social Studies, embraced history, political science, psychology, sociology, and philosophy. All of us were located in two offices and there were no more than two members of each department. And then as the school continued to grow, once we got up to four or five people in history, three or four people in political science, five or six persons in psychology, then the Social Studies Division as such was disbanded and the college went into its departmental setup, which we have to the present time.

Sweeney: Since the History Club is going to be reinvigorated in 1974, I wanted to ask you about the founding of it in 1956 and what activities you pursued in those years.

Pliska: Well, it was primarily an interest club. And Professor Whitehurst, Bill Whitehurst, and I, I believe, were the original sponsors of the club. We met, I believe, at least once a month. We would bring in guest speakers. In those days we also tried to tell the students how they should prepare for their history degrees, history majors, the selection of courses. Then later on when the university, or the college in those days, offered or required oral examinations, we even had some mock sessions of what an oral examination in history looks like. This was open not only to the members of the History Club but to all other students who were interested to get sort of a preview of what they may expect in these oral examinations. But I would venture to say that it was primarily an interest group and generally centering around a program with a guest speaker during this monthly meeting.

Sweeney: Dr. Pliska, how successful and beneficial were the Study Skills Workshops? And I was wondering if they would make up for any deficiencies in the freshman orientation back in the '50's?

11

Pliska: No, they would not make up any of the deficiencies in the freshman orientations. I believe we had about four each year. And these were divided. One, I believe, was the, what we may call the student intake, the taking of notes, the discussions in class. Next day another professor, not next day but maybe next week or the next time one of these skills sessions was held someone else might discuss something on oral discussion, group leadership, and how a student should participate in the classes. Another one might deal with underlining books, studying books, preparing for examinations. And these generally would start with maybe a hundred students in the first session. By the time we got to the third or fourth session the number, I would say, dwindled to about 20 or 30. And the students who did attend, I think, profited, but I think most of us were disappointed in that we didn't have a greater participation and, as frequently happens, those who needed the attention most didn't show up.

Sweeney: One additional point on that which I don't have here -- In the early 1950's in the freshman orientation the students went to YMCA Camps of Lynnhaven, an idea which Bob Stern introduced. And I was just wondering why that was discontinued. It seemed to be beneficial, and it seems from what you said that there really wasn't much in the way of freshman orientation in the 1950's.

Pliska: I never was involved in any of those freshman orientations. I do believe, I think that they were held at Camp Owatsi or one of the places. Then, they were held in different parts near Norfolk. Some were in Virginia Beach or Chesapeake. But as I recall they were brought to the campus. As the school continued to increase we could not accommodate three, four, five, six hundred freshmen. And therefore it was decided to bring them into the campus. And I believe at that time we had one week orientations. Later on these were reduced to three days or two days as we have at the present time. But I believe, to answer your question, we probably just outgrew the facilities which we could use for these freshman orientations.

Sweeney: You were the first chairman of the department of history when it was created. I was wondering if you could reflect on that period, first, exactly when was that and what kind of a department was it? Was it a cohesive department, a well trained and well regarded department?

Pliska: Well, the history department was an outgrowth of the Division of Social Studies. As I mentioned earlier, the Division of Social Studies embraced political science, sociology, psychology,

12

philosophy, and history. Then as the school grew in size and we had more faculty members in each one of the disciplines. Then the university, or the college in those days, broke down the disciplines into various departments. And I believe this would be somewhere around '56, or '57, when the history department was created. I believe Whitehurst and I, again, were the first ones. Dr. Warren Spencer, I believe, was the next person we employed, then came Schellings, then came Tyrell and DeBedts, Meyers, Dorothy Johnson, and it really was a cohesive group. I'll honestly admit that some of the best times I had at ODU were spent in connection with the history department with that particular group. We were relatively young, we were recent holders of our Ph.D.'s, we were all proud of it. We felt that we had the best department on the campus. A lot of people told us so. And, as I stated there, we assumed, or at least I thought we assumed, a leadership in a good many of the faculty as well as the student activities. We continued to expand. Whenever we looked for a person we always looked for balance in the department. So, we wanted good people, but on the other hand we also kept an eye on the course offerings that the man could produce so that the students would benefit by a wide and rich body of knowledge which the history department would have available.

Sweeney: For several years now you've been giving orientation talks to freshmen, and I was wondering how you prepared those talks?

Pliska: Well, I seem to have prepared them throughout the year; whenever I see a well-turned phrase or an idea which I think will pertain to freshmen for the coming orientation, like a good many other college professors, I just probably put it down into my scrapbook of possible lecture or speech material. Now whenever I speak to the freshmen, I look upon them as an individual who has good aspirations, maybe even great aspirations. Maybe the group won't consider it, but as far as he is concerned, definitely he has great ambitions. And therefore, when I speak to these people I like to welcome them to a community of scholars and at the same time extend to them the welcome from the university because, as you know, our university is connected with the Medieval universities, so our freshmen then join an enormous rank of scholars down through the ages. But this idea of just mentioning parties and what good times they can have, Hollywood can do as good a job in that or better than I can. So therefore what

13

I try to impress upon them is the value of an education and at the same time make an appeal. The here they are in a cafeteria of learning, and it's up to them to select the right pieces of this knowledge. It's available; it's for them to take.

Sweeney: You taught the first college credit class offered on television in Virginia, a course in world geography, over WVEC television on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, I guess it was in the early '60's or the late '50's. Could you tell the story of how this came about?

Pliska: Well, how it came about I don't know. But nevertheless I was asked to consider offering a course. And I believe at that time the various TV channels probably had certain requests from the government or even demands from the government to provide so many minutes or so many hours per week of educational time. And it's no doubt this way that the university was able to get some of this TV time. There were four courses, I believe, that were offered for credit. My geography course was one. I believe that the time that I was offering my course on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday Professor Bob Young of the music department was offering a two-credit course in music. The following semester Bill Whitehurst and Burt Bowden offered a course. Bill Whitehurst offered one in Virginia history, and Dr. Bowden offered one in economics. These were half hour courses, half hour programs, and as I remember I taught three times a week, as you mentioned. And that certainly burned up the time. You may get enough material to last you an hour in the classroom, but when you get on TV there just aren't any questions. It's straight talk, and it really took a good deal of preparation. At that time we also had sessions in class on the campus. I know my classes had something like 48 students enrolled for credit. These people met every second Saturday, and the questions they could not ask on a television program they were able to ask during these Saturday sessions. I think in addition to that there were about 150 or so people who bought kits or programs. I think this cost about two or three dollars to let them know what lectures, what programs would be forthcoming so that they could prepare themselves through any additional reading or advance reading if they cared to. As far as the station is concerned, I don't know whether they did this to make me feel good, but they claimed that the viewing audience, according to their estimates for this particular program, was about 5,000. Probably what I have

14

said for my particular course in geography would hold true for the other three courses that were being taught on television that particular year.

Sweeney: During the late 1950'S you were a sponsor of the Newman Club on campus. Could you tell me something about that activity?

Pliska: Here again it was equivalent to an interest group. We met every second Friday. The meetings were generally held during the lunch hour. The students would bring their lunches to a classroom, and it generally centered around a speaker. We would get the local priest to address the group. I remember Sen. McNamara, who at that time was quite interested in the Newman Club. He had a great deal of experience, I understand in his college days, so he was a frequent visitor. And the club took great interest in social activities as well as, we might say, good will activities. When it came to Thanksgiving time or Christmas time, they would collect cans, food, clothing for the needy. They likewise would organize dances and parties, the proceeds of which were generally converted to some good cause. And in many cases we had a series of lectures. For maybe one semester there might be lectures dealing with certain doctrines of the church, or the church Fathers, and we would get guest speakers to discuss this from one meeting on to the other. It was a well organized group. It was active and well recognized on the campus.

Sweeney: Why were comprehensive examinations for seniors begun?

Pliska: Well, I guess that was the trend of the time. A good many of the Ivy League schools, a good many of the leading women's colleges required oral examinations or comprehensive examinations. And here we were, a young school, four-year school, flushed with the glory of trying to be the best in the land, so we moved into this type of academic activity. We considered this to be the capstone of a student's education. And likewise a good many of the young professors were working on their doctorate degree or at least still had that work fresh in their mind, and they knew full well what preparing for the oral or comprehensives meant to them. And we felt that this also would be good for our students. Now these took different forms. In the history department, I know they were orals, one-hour, one-and-a-half hour orals. In other departments

15

they were written comprehensives. In other departments, in business, I believe, those departments would give the Graduate Record exam as the equivalent, with, of course, certain requirements for certain scores in order to be considered as having successfully passed them. And I would say the reason they declined is because they required too much time as far as the faculty is concerned. When you get two or three faculty members on a two-hour exam and the number of students increases, this really becomes burdensome as far as the faculty is concerned. And like in many other things, what is popular at one time soon diminishes in popularity. And I would say that after about three years the university did away with the comprehensives and in the case of the history department with the oral examinations.

Sweeney: How did you react to leaving teaching and becoming the dean of the evening college in 1962?

Pliska: Well, when I had the opportunity of accepting an administrative position, of course, I considered it a challenge. I think everyone has some ideas that he would like to put forth. And here I considered this an opportunity of trying to put forth and carry out certain ideas. I had some experience in evening college work because of my association with the University of Virginia, which was primarily extension work but more specifically evening college work. And I believe it was in 1962, that the late Dr. McClellan asked for a leave of absence for medical reasons, and Professor Webb asked me to fill in for that one particular semester. Unfortunately Dr. McClellan passed away that semester; he did not come back. And then I just stayed on in the position, first as an acting dean and then later as a regular dean.

Sweeney: Have you ever regretted not remaining in full-time teaching?

Pliska: Now that's a pointed question to ask of any administrator, maybe not pointed but one that gives you a definite answer. I don't think there's a week or a day that doesn't go by where any administrator feels he wishes he were back in teaching. No, I never regretted leaving it. On the other hand, I still would like to get back into teaching, if not on a full-time basis, definitely on a part-time basis. And until 1970 I was able to do it, and I think there are a good many administrators doing it now a good many more would like to keep a hand in teaching if they possibly could find the time. And I might say that at least I was consoled, to a certain extent. When I did leave teaching I was able to teach on a part-time basis for at least eight years as an administrator until I ran out of time. As I stated, I still would like to get back in some capacity, if not full time, at least part time.

16

Sweeney: Could you describe the development of the evening school during the 1960's, the faculty and the students, as to their quality?

Pliska: Well, I believe that when I took over in 1962, we had about 1,700 students in Old Dominion University's evening program. By 1970 or so I think that number increased to about 3,000. And, of course, it wasn't the fact that I was administering it. You must remember that the college changed from a two-year college to a four-year college, and then later on, of course, we went into graduate work. So I would say to a large extent it was the increase in the programs and the number of courses that probably accounted, to a large extent, for the increase in the student body. The faculty, I always maintained, was good. We used the regular faculty, and the local faculty, or the part-time faculty, were well screened by their department chairmen. As you very well know, the department chairman has sole authority to appoint a part-time faculty to teach in the evening college. The administration may make arrangements, may provide the housekeeping, but the academic program as far as--and the faculty, those definitely are in the control of the department chairmen. So to answer your original question, I would say, yes, I was satisfied with the faculty. As far as the students are concerned, here again, just like every class has its personality, I would say the evening students had their personality, and this would vary from year to year and from semester to semester. One thing I noticed, the middle core among the evening students was not as broad as it is among the day students. By that I mean that in the evening classes you will find probably more mature, more "A" students, but at the same time you also will find more "F" students. Now there's a bigger change there, I would say, heavier on either end. So you will find there many excellent students, but on the other hand you probably will find a greater share of poorer students. Now these are people who had no intention of going to college. Somewhere along the line they find out that they should give it a try, and within two or three weeks they find out that they can't cut it, they either withdraw, or if they don't withdraw they just give up, put in a physical appearance and don't apply themselves as well as they might. However, I would say as far as the day students are concerned, most of them who do come to college come with the intent of earning a degree.

Sweeney: Did you also have the responsibility for extension programs as part of the evening college?

17

Pliska: I did, but until about 1967 or 1968 this college was not permitted to offer any courses in extension. As I mentioned earlier, even though no one saw this in writing, it was the understanding in the state of Virginia that the only institutions which could offer extension courses were VPI, the University of Virginia, and William and Mary. And even though we became a four-year institution, we still were not allowed to offer courses in extension. However, bit by bit we did go into extension. We offered courses aboard aircraft carriers, aboard the cruiser Canberra, we began offering courses at the Naval Supply Center, at the Naval Air Station, with the understanding that the first time we got our fingers rapped we probably would stop. But this never came about, so I would say that in '68-'69 we began expanding our program. And also by '69, I think, it was a clear-cut verdict that this was not a monopoly of VPI, the University of Virginia, or William and Mary, but ODU could just as well offer courses as could the other institutions.

Sweeney: Could you comment on the activities and purpose of the seven-member Academic Council, which was set up in 1963 and on which you served?

Pliska: Well, primarily I would say that it was an advisory body to the president of the college, and I also would say that it was a liaison body, bringing in recommendations and at the same time passing down administrative policy to the department chairmen and in turn to the faculty. A good deal of this is now still being conducted, or the policy is being followed by the Council of Academic Deans. Presently, of course, with the University Senate, there still is some doubt, maybe, or some seeking of explanation, of just actually what the Council of Academic Deans is to do: in light of the University Senate. But in the early '60's, of course, there was no University Senate, so the Council of Deans, then, as I stated, was an advisory body and at the same time it served as a liaison body, taking back to the faculty policies, regulations, agreed to at its meetings and approved by the president.

Sweeney: I guess you've partially answered the next question. We'll just ask a part of it. 1 was informed that under the previous director of the evening college there was not a too cordial relationship with the military in Tidewater. I was wondering if you found this to be true when you began the job and what you did about it?

18

Pliska: No, I always found the relationships between the military and the college splendid. I believe the military is very fond of this university. A good many of them are proud to be associated with it. I think a good many of the people in the military look upon an assignment in Norfolk as a good one because of the existence of Old Dominion University, where they and their children will have educational opportunities. We always had good relations with the students. There were semesters in which we would probably average or have about 600 service people taking courses at ODU. And these were people who were here on tuition aid. Now how many of their dependents, how many of their wives and so forth were taking courses, or how many military people were taking courses not through tuition aid we won't know. But anyway, it was a sizable number. And I would say that the relationship with the students as 'well as with the military people who taught for us has always been splendid.

Sweeney: How did your association with the Armed Forces Staff College begin, and what has it involved over the years?

Pliska: Well, that started about 14 years ago. I remember I was once asked to give a talk to some members of the Armed Forces Staff College, and when I asked the person approaching me what I was to talk on he told me American history. I thought he was talking of a three-semester course which I would offer there, and then I learned that this was to be a lecture on American history in one hour's time, to be followed by one hour of question and answer. Well, no one could teach a course or even give a speech on American history in one hour's time, so I divided my topic into four parts, the territory, the frontier, the industrialization, and immigration, and tried to explain the American character, the factors making for American power on the basis of those particular categories. When I finished the lecture I was given an envelope. I thought the president would likewise be given a nice thank you letter, and when I opened the envelope there was a nice check. And the Navy pays well; the check was for three digits, and I figured, well, that's it. Next semester I was called again and asked whether I'd be willing to give a lecture at the Armed Forces Staff College. I asked them what they would like me to speak on this time, and they said the same thing. And, to make a long story short, I think I've given that same lecture now for 28 times. And this is what the Armed Forces Staff College liked, and, as one of my fellow officers once stated when he was introducing me, that I'm going to continue giving that lecture until I get it right. So maybe that's why I'm being invited so many times. One of these times maybe I will get it right.

19

Sweeney: Did you have any naval officers teaching part-time in the evening, and, if so, how successful were they?

Pliska: Yea, we had several. I Imagine that at any given semester there probably are anywhere from five to ten military people -- naval, army, air force -- teaching for us at ODU. I consider them to be very successful teachers. As you may well know the military services I think are leaders in methodology as far as instruction is concerned. Their petty officers, their non-commissioned officers, their officers do go through a good deal of training. And by the time a man attains one of these ranks he certainly has had a good deal of experience as far as classroom instruction is concerned. They understand the validity, the reliability of a course, of a test. And at the same time they know how to prepare a lesson, how to prepare a course, and I don't think I have had any complaint on a military instructor who was associated with ODU.

Sweeney: We offered classes down in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, which is probably the furthest extension class we've offered. How did these classes originate and how well were they received?

Pliska: Well, maybe it wasn't the furthest. I imagine that some of the farthest classes we offered were aboard the aircraft carriers. So, we had courses in Vietnam, and we had courses in the Mediterranean -- when those aircraft carriers deploy in those particular areas. But as far as the Guantanamo program, I think this is one of the highlights, I would say, of the programs with which I've been associated at Old Dominion University. This came about when some interested officers at Guantanamo felt that there was enough interest among the students, and they also felt that they had enough qualified officers who could teach courses down at Guantanamo. And even though this was not known to us at first, Guantanamo was looking for an affiliation with Johns Hopkins University. They were looking for an affiliation with the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg. But it so happened that the wife of the captain of the Naval Station there happened to be an ODU graduate, and I think she exercised her influence in persuading her husband and the admiral in charge there to look at ODU. Commander Cornetta came here one--this was in May, I believe, to explore the possibilities. A few weeks later President Webb and I flew down to Guantanamo to explore the ideas of what the facilities looked like, what the student

20

body might be like,and also to study the qualifications of the officers who would serve as the instructors. We gathered all of the information, brought it here to the campus, the records of the prospective instructors were studied. Most of them were approved by our department chairmen. We then went into a registration. I believe the first semester we had something like seven or eight sections enrolling something like 120 students. And this has been a popular program, I would say. And for your information I might say that it's very much alive even today.

Sweeney: We've never sent any of our faculty down there, have we, to teach?

Pliska: We never did, even though there was some consideration. As a matter of fact, I think there still is some consideration at the present time that, once the program does expand, there's no reason why we could not send down a faculty member who would serve as a coordinator, as a supervisor, and at the same time perhaps offer two, three, or maybe even four sections. So there has been this thought five years ago, and I believe as I stated earlier it still is very much alive today. And when we do send down such a faculty member, he might be down there for one semester or one academic year, no doubt replaced by another one. I believe this would help the program because a good many of the officers who teach for us there have the military background either as a supply officer or they may teach certain business courses. The chaplains are generally very much in favor of teaching for us. Their background is in sociology and perhaps in psychology. But when it comes to getting people with history backgrounds, with English backgrounds, in this respect we always have not been that fortunate. So I would say sending down someone from ODU certainly would help, and I would say that some time in the near future this will come about. I believe this year we had Dr. Ann Raymond from our education department did go down to Guantanamo and Haiti, I believe, offering courses on a two or three week basis. So, we are breaking the ice and we are sending ODU faculty members there, not for a semester or for a year, but for some of the so-called mini-courses, as we call them.

Sweeney: In 1970, you became dean of the new School of General Studies. Could you describe the circumstances surrounding the creation of the new school, what the functions might be, and how it came to be that you were chosen to be the first dean?

Pliska: I imagine that the best person to answer this question would be President Bugg, for this is largely his creation. No

21

doubt upon consultation with the late Dr. Johnson and Dr. Eickhoff, they came out with the idea of a School of General Studies, as it was to be known at Old Dominion University, to provide an academic home for the freshmen and sophomores. And during this period of time the freshmen and sophomores who have not selected a major or who have not been accepted by a department at least would be given some good academic advising, we hope. And it's ironic that a good many faculty members and maybe some students don't look upon this as a necessary program. I certainly do because, when you get a parent who puts out $3,000 a year for the education of his child, a total of $12,000, if you look at it from another point of view, if a student takes, let's say, 40 courses during his four-year career in order to earn the 120 credits, for each one of these three credit courses he's probably putting in 45 contact hours in the classroom, he's putting in another 90 hours preparing for this classroom presentation, so he's probably putting in 135 hours for every three credit course. When you multiply that by 40 such courses, we're talking about 5,000 hours. Now, why can't it be that during--for those 5,000 hours we can't find room for three, four, five, or six hours of advising. And this is primarily the purpose of the School of General Studies, is to provide an academic home for the freshmen and sophomores. And for a good many of these freshmen this can really be a traumatic experience. The difference between high school and college is not easy in many respects, and this is the function of the advisors, not only to program them but to establish a personal relationship. So when a student does have any difficulty, there is somebody on the faculty who will listen to him, who will help him, and if this somebody doesn't know the answers, at least the faculty member is in a much better position to find the answers for the student than the student himself. The other part of your question -- you ask how I came to be appointed dean of the School of General Studies. Well, one morning or one afternoon -- I don't remember which it was now, President Bugg called me into the office and mentioned the fact that he was considering of establishing or creating such a school to cater to the interests of the freshmen and sophomores as far as these particular academic interests were concerned. He also mentioned to me, explained to me, the new rule--the new role he envisioned for the evening college, and he mentioned one or two other new administrative units that he was planning to create. And he asked me whether I'd be willing to continue as the dean of the evening college. Also, would I be willing to give any consideration to serving as dean of the newly-created School of General Studies. And

22

since in his new program the evening college was to expand into non-credit courses, into the model city program, into a vast expansion--extension program, I felt that my qualifications were better suited in the School of General Studies. And furthermore, this would bring me in closer contact with the regular body of the college students, the so-called full-time day student. And after considering it for a few days, I told him I'd be glad to accept it if the position were offered to me; it was; and here I am. I enjoyed every minute of it.

Sweeney: Do you believe that the average ODU student has improved over the past 20 years?

Pliska: As far as the average student individually, we always had good students and we had some students that weren't so good. But I think our standards have increased over the years. So if we were to take 100 students back in 1946 and compare them with 100 students in 1974, I think the 1974 group would show up better. But from the earliest days ODU has always had some exceptional students who have done not only well here on the campus but have done equally as well after they graduated and left the campus.

Sweeney: Has the separation of counseling from academic advising been an asset to the student?

Pliska: Well, I don't think I'd put it this way -- the separation of counseling and advising -- but the fact that the college placed a great deal of emphasis on the academic advising I think is of great benefit to the student. Because as I mentioned earlier, to require all of this time -- four years, all of the preparation, all of the money -- and not to give the students some guidance and counseling in the preparation of his career or to help him with his academic program, I think, would be a failure on the part of the university. And as I mentioned earlier, the creation of the School of General Studies and to provide this academic advising for the student is not my idea; it's President Bugg's idea. But I certainly feel that every college, every university ought to have a division within itself that takes care of the freshmen and sophomores as we do here at ODU.

Sweeney: Have you been satisfied with the performance of the academic advising staff over the last four years?

23

Pliska: Yes, I certainly have. We had some excellent advisors. I think there was only one advisor who was not invited back. Some of them maybe were not 100% or "A-plus" but nevertheless they did render satisfactory service. But in the last two years I think we've had an exceptional group of advisors, people who are interested in the students and certainly devote a full measure of their devotion to help the students in their academic problems.

Sweeney: What criteria do you use in hiring academic advisors? Do you seek a mixture of the more mature and young people?

Pliska: Yes. Fortunately enough we've been able to have this particular mixture. Walter Earl and Hal Astair, who are professional counselors, have been with us a number of years, and they provide the maturity, they provide the stability. As far as the other advisors are concerned, the academic advisors, it was the original intent to employ young people, preferably ODU graduates, who are familiar with our registration process, who have gone through ODU, who know the difficulties and the good points, the pleasures and the disappointments that they experience in their four years at ODU. And I would say that the academic advisors - we haven't had one of them more than three years. I don't think this is a reflection, because a good many of these young people get their Master's degrees, they get better positions, and they move on to greener pastures. But this also has been the intent, to have them replaced with younger people, recent graduates who have a good rapport with the student body.

Sweeney: Can you give me some details on the new area of concentration in general studies? Is this intended for the student who is unsure of himself, or is it intended for the below-average student?

Pliska: I'm glad you asked that question because I can very easily answer it with a "no" -- it definitely is not intended for the below-average student or for the student who is unsure of himself. In my original letter to President Bugg, when this particular discipline or this particular degree was created, I mentioned the fact that what we don't want is for somebody to come around in the fourth year of his college, lay down 120 credits on the table, and then tell us, "Well, I don't fit in here; I don't like this. However, I have 120 credits. Now I would like to get a degree in interdisciplinary studies." Originally, as a matter of fact,

24

when the degree was proposed, the ad hoc committee intended to require a 2.5 average for entrance into the program. However, when it got to the University Senate and when some of the other administrators looked at it, of course, we realized this couldn't be so. If the student is good enough to remain at ODU and has his average of 2.0 or better and is eligible to enroll for courses at ODU, he also should have the right of eligibility, of selecting this particular program. As you know, this--some people call the wave of the future this work in interdisciplinary studies. It's really a self-styled, self-created major. I might state that William and Mary now has such a program, VCU, the University of Virginia -- there are about six such schools in the state that offer such a degree. Really, this is an individual major created by the student with the consultation of two faculty sponsors or two faculty advisors. It's faculty controlled from beginning to end. However, it does provide flexibility where a student need not concentrate in one discipline but may enrich his career opportunities, his academic opportunities, by selecting courses from other disciplines. Dr. Levinstein, who is our new director, our first director of the program, I believe has an excellent background. He has a Ph.D. in interdisciplinary studies from the University of Chicago. And he was a post-fellow graduate student at the University of Penn State, and likewise gained additional experience. I believe that as time goes on this will probably become one of the more popular majors or one of the more popular selections at Old Dominion University.

Sweeney: Have there been any other recent developments in the past two years that I might have overlooked asking you about?

Pliska: No, I don't know how you could overlook them. As I told you at the beginning of the interview, I don't know where you dug up all this information...I might say I'm serving on some committees which, I think, have interesting assignments. And I think this bears watching in the next year or two. One of the committees, I would say, is the articulation committee between ODU and the community colleges whereby we're trying to coordinate our course of study, maybe even the selection of the books, transferral of students from the community colleges to ODU. Now this articulation committee is going to serve as sort of a clearing house, a contact point between ODU and the individual community colleges. What we would like to do is establish a relationship where every department at Old Dominion University is going to have a direct contact

25

with its counterpart at the community college. And when we get to that point, and we hope to do so within a year or two, I think there's going to be an excellent rapport between ODU and the community colleges. And this is very important because each year we get a greater and greater percentage of our new faces, our new students, who happen to be transfer students. So we can't ignore these people. We certainly have to look forward to them and prepare to receive them and make the transition as smooth as possible. Another interesting committee on which I'm serving is the Servicemen's Opportunity College. Now under this particular program a person in the military service may enroll at a university of his choosing -- in this case it could be Old Dominion University -- and because his military duties may transfer him to other parts of the country, other parts of the world, he still may have an opportunity to continue his college education by taking courses that are offered in the locale in which he is serving. These credits can then transfer to Old Dominion University, and when he meets our minimum requirements -- 30 credits of residence plus the concentration requirements for the department of his choosing -- he then may earn a degree at Old Dominion University. I would say these are two interesting committees, and I think they certainly will produce some good results once they get going.

Sweeney: One point that you just mentioned...I'd like to pursue. Do you see a decline in enrollment or are you in any way alarmed by enrollment trends at Old Dominion today?

Pliska: Well, sooner or later, I think, we're going to reach a stable point. And even though we did experience a decline last year, at least during the fall semester, of course, we increased during the spring semester. I think we have reached a reversal point, because from what the admissions people tell us it is that our enrollments will increase quite considerably for the fall semester of 1974. And even though there may be a decline as far as the 18- or 19-year-old students are concerned, I think ODU's opportunities are unlimited as far as its continuation--continuing education program is concerned, as far as its evening program is concerned, because we have hundreds of retirees residing in Norfolk who are now becoming interested in education. So I would say that if we do lose out, we may lose out in the 18 or 19 -- and by losing out I mean there may be a decline in that respect. But on the other hand this can be compensated by the part-time students and likewise by the so-called student preparing himself for a second career. So I think ODU's opportunities, as far as the student body is concerned, the student head count is concerned, look very favorable to me.

Sweeney: Dr. Pliska, what are your own goals for the future?

Pliska: To continue to do as good a job as I possibly can. And I hope that our interdisciplinary studies program expands. I would like to see one or two hundred students in the program, and I would say that within three or four years we definitely ought to reach this goal. Also, as I mentioned, this articulation committee, which is working with the community college, providing for a good, smooth transfer of community college graduates to ODU, I think is something which needs developing, and I'm happy to be able to serve on that committee. And as far as any goals, I stated, I repeat it's to do as good a job with hopes of being able to dip into the classroom situation some time and be able to teach a course occasionally.

Sweeney: Thank you very much, Dean Pliska.