Sweeney: Today I am pleased to be interviewing Mr. Yates Stirling III, a retired faculty member of the School of Engineering. Mr. Stirling, could you tell me about your background, that is, your family, education and early career interests?

Stirling: Yes, I was -- I'm the son of a naval officer who in turn was the son of another naval officer. And my early background was the same as most young navy juniors. I stayed usually no more than two or three years in one place, and then we went and tried another. My education before college is rather spotty, as we didn't stay very long in one place. I spent, as I remember, two years in _________ prep in Brooklyn. I spent a year in _________, New York, and I finally graduated from __________ in Philadelphia.

Sweeney: Could you briefly summarize your twenty-four year career in the United States Navy?

Stirling: Well I entered the Naval Academy in 1922; graduated in 1926; commissioned an ensign in the line. Spent the next two years on battleships and destroyers. And then went to Pensacola, where I took the flight course. I was designated naval aviator in 1929 and sent to the Lexington – sent to a squadron, a fighting squadron on the Lexington. I stayed in carriers for about three years at which time I came ashore in Norfolk for two. And after that I went to the USS Northampton where I spent about a year and a half. At that time I experienced some eye problems and was no longer able to fly, so I was sent to supply school in Philadelphia. And after that went right back to carriers again. There I stayed, that is, I stayed with naval aviation until I ultimately retired in 1946.

Sweeney: How did you come to accept a teaching position at the St. Helena extension of William and Mary in 1947?

Stirling: A friend of mine, whom I had met at the officers' club told me that they were looking for somebody to teach mechanical drawing and would I be interested. And I said, "Well, I'm not sure whether I would be interested in mechanical drawing, but I might like to try teaching." He told me to come over and talk to Dr. Schwartz, which I did, and ended up teaching mathematics.

Sweeney: Could you describe the courses that you taught at St. Helena?

Stirling: Yes, I taught elementary algebra, that is, remedial algebra, you might call it, or remedial mathematics. And college algebra and trigonometry. And analytic geometry too. We did not get into the calculus, that is, as far as I was concerned at that time.

Sweeney: What do you recall about that experience – about the students that you taught at St. Helena?

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Stirling: Not too much. They were, of course, all veterans. And they were there for one reason – you got an education. And they worked pretty hard and as I look back, they were under considerable - under a good many handicaps, as some of our teachers, including myself, were not too experienced.

Sweeney: You taught at the Norfolk Division of William and Mary from 1948 to 1951. Could you tell me first, why you left the Norfolk Division in 1951?

Stirling: (not audible)

Sweeney: Let's rephrase that question on why you left the St. Helena Extension in 1948?

Stirling: I left St. Helena in 1948 because I had received an appointment to a position at the Norfolk Division of William and Mary. And since St. Helena was closing, why it was a very fortunate thing for me.

Sweeney: What was your opinion of the students whom you taught at the Norfolk Division during the three years that you were there the first time?

Stirling: The students were mostly veterans there, too -- veterans and co-op students. Both of which made very good students. They were conscientious, hardworking, and particularly the co-ops who had had some experience in industry and really had a better idea of what they were trying to accomplish than those students who had not had any outside experience.

Sweeney: Could you tell me about the equipment and the physical facilities with which you were provided in those days in the 1950's – the early 1950's -- at the Norfolk Division?

Stirling: They were, you might say, adequate for the moment. But nothing fancy at all. We were able to follow through on carrying out the curriculums which had been outlined for us, but there were no frills at all. It was very fundamental.

Sweeney: The building that you taught in, wasn't that one of the Navy surplus buildings on Hampton Boulevard? Could you describe that?

Stirling: No. The building we used was the old Larchmont School, which we called the Old Academic Building. Yes. I remember when we were all looking for names. A great many people suggested we just call it the early building.

Sweeney: Now I'll ask you the question: why did you leave the Norfolk Division in 1951 to accept a position at Norfolk Academy, a preparatory school in Norfolk?

Stirling: We ran out of students and I was low man on the totem pole. And so Lewis Webb at that time said he was very sorry but he couldn't renew my contract. That he would be very glad to see me again when he got some more students.

Sweeney: Could you compare or contrast your experiences in teaching at the college and the preparatory school level?

Stirling: Teaching on the secondary level requires all the talents, maybe not quite as much know-how, but all the talents needed to teach college. In addition you've got to be somewhat of a disciplinarian because that happens to be one of the problems of the secondary school – is keeping the boys who are apt to be rather exuberant quiet enough to impart some knowledge to them.

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Sweeney: How did you manage to complete a master's degree in mechanics at Virginia Polytechnic Institute while teaching full-time at the Norfolk Division?

Stirling: Actually I wasn't at the Norfolk Division; I was at Norfolk Academy. And I only went to VPI in the summers, except the last summer when I did the third quarter and the summer in order to finish my degree.

Sweeney: In 1954 you returned to the Department of Engineering at the College. Why did you choose to return?

Stirling: Well, having gotten my degree in 1954, I was asked to return and given a very attractive offer as compared with what I was getting at the Norfolk Academy.

Sweeney: It was necessary then for you to have the master's degree to return?

Stirling: I don't know whether it was necessary. It probably was, because they were reluctant to take anybody on the faculty unless they either had an advanced degree or were particularly well qualified in their professions.

Sweeney: What courses did you teach during the years from 1954 until your retirement in 1972?

Stirling: In the beginning we taught mathematics, that is I taught mathematics. I taught some physics, and I taught some mechanics. As time went on, the Physics Department, of course, was formed. The Mathematics Department was formed, and we got down to the point where we just taught engineering courses. The engineering courses which we taught were the introductory courses. And I taught mechanics, statics, strength and materials, and dynamics; also some structures labs too, as well.

Sweeney: Could you give me your overall impressions of how the engineering students' attitudes and interests have changed since the 1950's?

Stirling: I can't see much difference in their attitudes since 1950s. The engineering students have been a rather conservative lot. It's true that the freshman were, you might say, a rather grubby lot when they came in. And four years later they were entirely different people. But on the whole the engineer is conservative; he has to be. And I think this is characteristic of the engineering students whether you compare him with what was going in 1954 and what was going on in 1972.

Sweeney: What faculty colleagues in engineering made an especially strong impression concerning your career?

Stirling: I think the two who contributed most to helping me were Mr. Edward L. White, Associate Dean Edward L. White, and Mr. W.M. Beck, Billy Beck. Billy Beck was particularly helpful when I was doing my graduate work in that he was able to advise me. Having just gone through it himself a few years before.

Sweeney: Could you describe the principal changes in the Department and later the School of Engineering over the past twenty years?

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Stirling: When I came to the Norfolk Division, Dean White, Mr. White, was then head of, you might say, the science department. I forget right now exactly what it was called, but it included the mathematics teachers, the physics teachers, and the engineering teachers. In other words those three disciplines were under one head. As time went on, of course they were split up. And let's see, as it went on, changes were made. When Dean Lampe came, the School of Engineering, which was then the Department of Engineering, was divided into four parts: the Electrical Department, or Electrical Discipline, the Civil Engineering Discipline, the Thermal Engineering Discipline, and the Administrative Discipline. And these remained pretty firm up to a year or so ago.

Sweeney: How did you become interested in computers?

Stirling: About 1968, I guess it was, I was asked by Dean White whether I would be interested in helping him teach the computer course. And I said that I would be. And so I began to learn primarily by mastering the book, and listening, of course, to the lectures which were given by people who were then teaching the course.

Sweeney: You've done considerable advising of students over the years. Could you tell me why you feel this part of your responsibilities is so important, and has it been personally rewarding?

Stirling: I think that the counseling of students is a very important function. It has been my experience that without counseling, few students are able to achieve within any reasonable time, a specific direction. They seem to flounder. They seem to also get into the wrong courses, and take the wrong courses at the wrong times. I think that anytime you can help a person accomplish his objective, you get a rewarding feeling. And I would say that that would constitute my personal reward for what little counseling I did.

Sweeney: Teaching was your principal activity as a faculty member of Old Dominion University. Do you have any personal philosophy of teaching?

Stirling: Well, my personal philosophy of teaching is that you get out of it exactly what you put into it. If you work hard and are conscientious in completing your assignments, I think you get a great deal out of your work. But if you just go along barely getting by, you will find that you will understand it all right, but you won't be able to use it.

Sweeney: In retrospect what would you say were your chief satisfactions in teaching? Were there any major disappointments?

Stirling: Well, I think it's always a satisfaction to see young men you have worked with finally complete their degree requirements and go out into the world. As far as the major disappointments, I can't remember any. Maybe that's because we didn't look for them.

Sweeney: At one time, you were the Secretary Treasurer of the Educational Foundation of the Engineer's Club of Hampton Roads. Could you tell me more about the Engineers Club and what it has meant to the School of Engineering?

Stirling: The Engineers Club originally was set up in Norfolk to give the engineering community a certain amount of cohesion. And my primary contact with the club was not with the club itself, but was with the Educational Foundation of the Engineers Club which was a foundation set up to administer funds to help

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primarily students or deserving faculty members.

Sweeney: After your retirement in 1972 did you become involved in a new career?

Stirling: Not really, not really a new career. I became interested in accounting when I was the secretary-treasurer of the Engineers Club. And it was at that time that I began to take an active interest. So when I retired, I decided that having gone a little way I might as well go a little further. And since my retirement I have been taking auditing, I should say, one accounting course per semester at the University.

Sweeney: In February of 1973 you were awarded emeritus status by the Board of Visitors. What significance has this rank had for you?

Stirling: Well ultimately I don't think I have noticed anything, except that the University seems to keep in very close touch with me. I am sent necessary memoranda, I am advised when commencement comes and invited to participate and things of that sort. And I am extended all the courtesies as if I were still on active duty on the faculty.

Sweeney: Do you still remain in contact with the School of Engineering? How successfully do you believe the School of Engineering to be fulfilling its mission today?

Stirling: Well I don't keep in contact with the School of Engineering as much perhaps as I should, but I attend some of the seminars. I go by occasionally and renew old friendships, but I do not engage in any engineering activity with them. I believe that the School of Engineering today is more successful, perhaps than it's ever been. The new School of Technology is, I understand, one of the foremost in the State of Virginia. And the graduates who receive a Bachelor of Science degree are in great demand in the state.

Sweeney: One other thing that you mentioned in talking before - a Mrs. Phillips who taught on the faculty and I would like you to tell me again what you were telling me before.

Stirling: When I first came to the university, Mrs. Phillips was teaching physics and mathematics. And since I hadn't touched anything for about twenty years, I started in at the very bottom and worked my way up through the courses. And I took a great many courses with her. And I always admired her ability to handle a class. There was no time wasted; students got her attention. And she had a facility for doing this sort of thing and doing it well and smoothly that very few teachers that I have seen can handle.

Sweeney: Thank you very much, Professor Stirling.