ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW
WITH
DR. JACQUES ZANEVELD

Norfolk, Virginia
FEBRUARY 19, 1976
by JAMES R. SWEENEY, OLD DOMINION UNIVERSITY

Listen to Interview

Sweeney: Today I'm pleased to be interviewing Professor Jacques S. Zaneveld, who began the study of oceanography at Old Dominion University in the early 1960's. The first question that I wanted to ask you, Dr. Zaneveld, did your early life in the Netherlands cause you to become interested in marine science?

Zaneveld: Yes, Mr. Sweeney, indeed it did. I was born in the seaside resort of Lilliput in Holland near the Hague, and my home was not far away from the beach so that I was always walking along the beach, particularly in the wintertime when there were not too many people, and I collected shells and other things that were washed ashore.

Sweeney: Could you provide me with some information about your early education on the secondary and undergraduate levels?

Zaneveld: Well, the secondary level education is, as you know, in Holland and in Europe quite an extensive program. We had to take about eighteen different courses. And at the undergraduate level my major was biology, and my minors were physics, chemistry, and geology.

Sweeney: Why did you decide to go on to pursue graduate degrees in botany? Was any professor particularly responsible for stimulating your interest in marine life?

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Zaneveld: Certainly. There was Professor Lawrence who came from Hopkins Marine Station at Pacific Grove, California, who came to Leiden in 1931 and who was a tremendous stimulus to develop the interest in marine life.

Sweeney: Could you tell me something about your doctoral dissertation, "The Charophyta of Malaysia and Adjacent Countries"? Did you do any research in the Orient?

Zaneveld: Well, this dissertation is about a group of special algae which are mainly freshwater forms, but some of them grow into estuarines. But this dissertation was worked out at the Leiden University mainly based upon collected material by others. I had plans, yes, to go to the Orient, but that could not be realized because of the World War.

Sweeney: While pursuing your graduate degrees you served as research assistant and curator of fungi and charophyta at the National Herbarium at the State University of Leiden. Could you discuss your duties at that time more fully?

Zaneveld: Well, the duty of a conservator is first of all supervision of the existing collections, both the dry and the wet collections, and second, of course, to identify incoming specimens from your own country or from other countries, and then go ahead and try to identify old collections that for a long time were preserved in the Herbarium so that more and more specimens will become described.

Sweeney: You were in Leiden when the Nazis invaded the Netherlands. Could you give me your recollections about this tragic occurrence? How did the university community react, and what effect did the invasion have on your work?

Zaneveld: Well, we could talk for a long time about this nasty point. Well, first of all, it postponed my departure for Djakarta for about seven years. Leiden University was closed by the Occupants because none of the professors wanted to collaborate with the Nazis. Therefore, one of the other things was that I had to leave the university at its closure in 1942 and look for another job in the meantime that, of course, not so easy was to find.

Sweeney: You began your teaching career, I understand, in 1936, at the Gymnasium Haganum, where you also taught from 1942 to '48 and 1951 to '54. Could you provide more information about this phase of your career?

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Zaneveld: Well, in 1936 I was still assistant at the Herbarium at Leiden University when Professor tried to establish a new high school based on Montessori principles, which the students receive more individual teaching. The whole Montessori program is a student- oriented program in which they can proceed in their own tempo. So that I was asked by Professor to teach biology, which I did, and this type of work continued during the war, '42-'48 period, and the '51-'54 period, to which we come later on.

Sweeney: From 1948 to 1951 you served as a marine psychologist at the Royal Botanical Gardens Laboratory for the Investigation of the Sea in Djakarta, Indonesia. Could you tell me what research you were pursuing at this time? And how did you come to accept this assignment?

Zaneveld: Well, let us say that about eighty percent of the Dutch biologists were trained to get a job in what was at that time the Netherlands East Indies, which is called now Indonesia. And therefore my training was directed towards a possibility of studying algae in that environment. The war of '40 to '45 made it impossible to reach Indonesia, or the Netherlands East Indies, in 1941 when my job would start there at the Royal Botanical Gardens so that I had to wait until 1948 before I could come there and work on the economy of algae, which was my main goal, and how they could be used as food.

Sweeney: Could you tell me about any expeditions you made while you were doing research in the Netherlands East Indies?

Zaneveld: While I was there I was mainly interested, as I said already, in the economy of algae, so I collected algae in the Bay of Batavia, particularly on almost all coral islands, and there are close to a thousand of those distributed all over these tropical areas. And then I made a very interesting collecting trip to New Guinea, which the western part of that big island belonged also to the Netherlands at that time.

Sweeney: From 1954 to 1959 you served as director of the Caribbean Marine Biological Institute at Curacao in the Netherlands Antilles. What was the function of this institute, and what kind of research were you engaged in?

Zaneveld: This institute had as goal research of the tropical marine flora and fauna. How it became established was, in fact, a

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thing that came about because of the closure of the Tropical Institute in Djakarta. Because of the fact that the Netherlands East Indies was no longer a colony of the Netherlands, we lost our Tropical Marine Station there and therefore the Netherlands universities were interested to establish a new tropical laboratory which I tried to establish in Curacao and which happened to be there.

Sweeney: How did you first learn about the Norfolk Division of the College of William and Mary? And why did you accept an appointment here in 1959 as professor of biology and chairman of that department?

Zaneveld: That's a very interesting story. I had in 1958 two students, two American students, by the names Sanford Vernick and John Werms, who were working at the Caribbean Marine Biological Institute at Curacao. They thought that it would be very beneficial for the United States if I gave up my work in Curacao and changed to the United States. Well, Sanford Vernick wrote a letter to his professor, and via another professor I learned that there was a vacancy at Norfolk Division of the College of William and Mary in Norfolk. So that this actually was the beginning of my career in the USA. It's interesting to know that Sanford Vernick is now working here at the Eastern Virginia Medical Authority. He has his Ph.D. in molecular biology, and John Werms is a director of the ocean sciences laboratory in Montauk at Long Island.

Sweeney: When you arrived in 1959, what were your impressions of the city of Norfolk and the College of William and Mary branch?

Zaneveld: Well, as a matter of fact, you see at once that this is a tremendous Navy city, and our marine station in the Netherlands was also located in such a Naval area. That is always a good thing to start a marine biology program, and that's what I really had in mind. The College of William and Mary was, of course, a rather small school at that time, but I saw the opportunities all around with those water sites that were here and all the impressive help that you could get, not only from the Navy but also from the inhabitants of Norfolk, so that I decided to try here.

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Sweeney: What did you see as your principal challenge as head of the biology department?

Zaneveld: Well, first of all, the biology department had to be reorganized. There were only four staff members working in that department. It was much too small for a developing college. The idea was to develop good teaching, not, of course, popularity teaching, and, second, to introduce research, and especially subsidized research.

Sweeney: Do you think you've answered the next question about what plans you had for the biology department? (Yes.) Could you describe your relationship with President Lewis Webb of the College? What valuable advice did he give you about running an academic department and about budgetary matters?

Zaneveld: Well, Dr. Webb was a tremendous stimulus to my plans to develop here a marine biological department and scientific matters regarding marine life. He recognized me as a specialist and let me do the job. He was always available for advice, and he usually joined me if he had to make some important decisions as, for instance, where to establish a temporary marine laboratory.

Sweeney: Did you have any difficulty obtaining financial support for your beginning oceanography program?

Zaneveld: As a matter of fact, that is the main difficulty always in establishing a new thing. But with the help of Dr. Webb, we could set aside already in the biology budget a post for marine work, and then this could later on be the base on which we could establish our new department. A second thing was that we should develop grants, proposals for grants, and I was promised that we could keep the overhead costs for the development of this marine biology program.

Sweeney: During your first summer in Tidewater, Virginia, in 1960 you taught a course in marine biology at the Virginia Fisheries Laboratory at Gloucester Point. Do you have any recollections of this experience?

Zaneveld: Yes, I sure do. I liked to work there very much. There was, of course, an opportunity to do a little more that

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I was accustomed to do in the Netherlands in our larger marine establishment. And that was the case in Gloucester Point, too. There were many students eager to learn; equipment was available; boats were available so that here I really found the things that I so badly wanted to have in Norfolk, too.

Sweeney: In 1960 you, started the study of oceanography at the college: as a field laboratory of the biology department in the converted ferry office at Willoughby Spit. Could you describe this early program and the facilities with which you were provided?

Zaneveld: Yes. This was, of course, a very difficult beginning because we didn't have any facilities, really, except that this building had to be torn down anyway in the near future, as we thought. But we started a course in marine biology. We kept a laboratory there connected to this course, and it was amazing that so many students were interested in working there. They were really motivated and worked, more or less, day and night to establish this small building as a real marine facility.

Sweeney: An article in the Norfolk Virginian-Pilot, dated June 2, 1961, mentioned an $11,300 grant from the National Science Foundation for the study of "marine algae of the Atlantic coast." Could you tell me more about this grant and the nature of the project you were pursuing?

Zaneveld: Well, regarding the biology of the waters from Cape May to Cape Hatteras, it was obvious that this was a real inhospitable coast. Therefore, almost no collections had been made there, and the area was clear for some collecting and other studies. So, when I made this proposal to the National Science Foundation, I obtained the money. We traveled by trailer along the coast between Cape May and Cape Hatteras with two students and made a tremendous, nice and interesting collection of which the last' part is just ready for publication.

Sweeney: In the fall of 1962 you received an eighty-piece collection of animal specimens from a Mr. Herbert C. Smith. What kind of specimens were included in this collection, and what happened to the collection?

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Zaneveld: Well, this was really the first collection that an interested citizen from Norfolk gave to the laboratory. I used it, actually, as an eye-catcher to establish more citizen interest and credibility in our new institution. The specimens are still present in the Old Dominion laboratory.

Sweeney: A newspaper article published on the 4th of June, 1963, reported that you had received a $13,400 grant from the National Science Foundation for the study of algae along the coast from Cape May to Cape Hatteras. I wondered if this was the same grant or in addition to the same grant and how fully you achieved your objectives in this study?

Zaneveld: Yes that's right. This was a continuation of the support that I got from our former grant along the Atlantic coast. I received this grant three times, and therefore we could collect in more detail along that particular part of the coast. And this money was also used to work out the collection.

Sweeney: In that same newspaper article of 1963, you were quoted as saying that you planned to make ODC a center for algae research in the U.S. Were you able to achieve this goal?

Zaneveld: Well, I think it certainly became one of the centers that was recognized as an algological center, and I believe, when we look into publications, that this goal was close to having been achieved.

Sweeney: In 1963 you received an NSF grant to participate in "Operation Deep Freeze" on the continent of Antarctica. What were the research objectives of this expedition and your subsequent expeditions in 1964 and 1967?

Zaneveld: The main question was, "Are there algae in the Antarctic waters? If they are there, where are they? What are the quantities, and are they economically usable?" This is what I tried to answer by going down there every time with two students from Old Dominion University, and we collected a tremendous amount of algae.

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Sweeney: What function did your student assistants have on these expeditions? Do you wish to recall any incidents pointing up the students' value in your Antarctic explorations?

Zaneveld: Well, science looks glamorous, but it is extremely hard work, and that's particularly the case in the Antarctic. So that when you are down in the Antarctic, you've got to depend upon everybody who is surrounding you. My work would have been impossible without students. We camped outside for ninety percent of the time, which is always a dangerous situation. Anywhere you go in the Antarctic, you could very easily drop through the ice and drown instantly, and drown and be killed instantly. So that, without students, it's an impossibility to be there.

Sweeney: Did you receive the cooperation of the university administration when you planned these trips?

Zaneveld: Yes, I certainly did. At that time it was one of the first big grants that Old Dominion got, and so there were connected quite some good overhead costs in receiving such a grant. So that the administration was very pleased to let me go.

Sweeney: Were you able to establish the unique collection of specimens of Antarctic algae here that you expressed hope would be a result of the Antarctic explorations?

Zaneveld: Yes, I certainly did. I have a fantastic large collection that is partly on dried herbarium sheets and that's partly a so-called wet collection, where you still have the specimens in preservative so that it's easier to work with these specimens when you try to make sections of them.

Sweeney: Did you experience any personal apprehension before your first trip to Antarctica?

Zaneveld: "Well, I regarded it as a challenge, a tremendous opportunity to show that - actually, all that you had done in the past now could be applied in this new area. So that, then, of course, the National Science Foundation took care with regard to your training in order to go there on such an expedition. We were tested in the Naval hospital in

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Bethesda for two full days, and then, last but not least, my training as a Boy Scout has always helped tremendously to live under primitive circumstances.

Sweeney: Well, did you want to say anything about how you adjusted to life in such an alien environment in Antarctica?

Zaneveld: One thing in the Antarctic is that the clothing that was given to us was very well selected. We could camp outside, and you could actually sleep in a sleeping bag under very low temperatures. But, of course, the diving question was new for the Antarctic, and that is a thing that you have to experience before you really can say whether it will work or not. But certainly it did.

Sweeney: Looking back, can you describe your own personal reaction to Antarctica? And any noteworthy experiences you will probably always remember?

Zaneveld: Well, the Antarctic is a most impressive area, majestic with regard to the tremendous height of the mountains eternally covered by ice. At the other hand, you feel lonesome there sometimes. There is a very small number of people, and that makes it very nice. But camping outside, again, you have to depend on the three people with whom you are. Yes, there are many experiences noteworthy. One time I almost drowned because the tracked vehicle sank through the ice, and we had to jump out, on which occasion I broke my leg. Another time we were thrown ashore on one of the uninhabited Sabrina Islands while we were trying to make a landing with L.C.V.P.

Sweeney: Was it true that you took the first known photographs of sea leopards on your first trip in 1963-64?

Zaneveld: Well, it's always difficult to say whether they are actually really the first ones, but, anyway, these photographs I took of the sea leopards were, I think, quite original, and I also made eight-millimeter movies of the life of these sea leopards.

Sweeney: What was the enduring value of these expeditions to Antarctica? What were your principal scientific findings?

Zaneveld: First of all, the algae grow during the dark period, which was thought not to be possible. But because of the fact that the metabolism of these organisms slow down by the low temperatures and, second, because the dark period does not

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last as long as most people think it does, algae could survive during the dark period of about three months on their reserve matter that they had built up in the twenty- four hour period of daylight that they got during the rest of the year. Another thing is that algae, that we found that algae grow much deeper than was thought before. We have collected with the aid of the glacier, the icebreaker, algae from bottom down to about six hundred meters. This indicates that the water in the Antarctic is completely clear. There is no pollution at all, and that makes it possible that sunlight penetrate much deeper than, of course, in the area around us here.

Sweeney: After your return from the second Antarctic journey in the spring of 1965, you traveled to Europe to study algae collections in botanical museums in France, England, Sweden, and Holland. Why did you make this trip, and what conclusions did you draw from your studies?

Zaneveld: All Antarctic studies on algae were made by Europeans in the past so that all so-called type collections of these specimens were, and are still, in Europe. A type collection or a type specimen is the first specimen of a certain species that is described, that has been described properly according to the international botanical rules. In order to know that a specimen that you have collected is the same as the original specimen, you have to see the specimens, and that was the reason that I had to go to different European countries where these type collections were preserved.

Sweeney: Your second journey south received quite a bit of publicity. Do you recall R. J. R. Johnson, of the St. Paul Pioneer Press, who wrote a series of articles, and, I believe, Jack Kestner of the Norfolk Ledger-Star interviewed you also? Did this press coverage hinder your work, or was the publicity valuable in the long run?

Zaneveld: Well, I certainly remember John Johnson and Jack Kestner. They were most welcome joining me sometimes for the first time they could also camp outside in our tent. And, as a matter of fact, the questions that they raised pushed us down, actually, on problems that we had not thought about before. The press coverage was a tremendous contribution

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to our work, and I certainly welcomed it very much that they covered what we were doing because, in the long run, the publicity has aided to change the opinion of the public towards helping scientific work.

Sweeney: In one of the newspaper articles, your student assistant, Jim Curtis, remarked that during a blizzard of three days duration, "we feasted on a coffee pot of cold water and a box of Cadbury chocolates." Why were you not carrying more substantial rations?

Zaneveld: Well, in short, there were three tents. One tent was the kitchen tent in which we had all our food. The second tent was our sleeping tent, in which we had the three sleeping bags - nothing else because there couldn't be anything more in that tent, and the third tent was a radio pup tent from which we could talk to the main base. Well, while this blizzard broke out, it was in the middle of the night at a certain day in October of 1964. We were in the sleeping tent sleeping in our three bags. As a matter of fact, there was nothing in this tent. There was no heat in the tent, there was no food, there was actually haphazardly, well, a piece of chocolate and some coffeepot with cold water. So that we had to live for three days and two nights on this meal because the wind was blowing at a speed of about ninety to a hundred miles an hour, and it was even impossible to reach the kitchen tent to get other food there.

Sweeney: You were described in one newspaper story as being "careless of life and limb" and "a rather reckless driver." You've mentioned one incident of plunging through the ice. I wonder if you experienced considerable difficulty on the ice or in diving in Antarctica?

Zaneveld: Well, I don't think that that is true. I think I'm just a very careful man. But it is a risky undertaking going to the Antarctic, there's no doubt about it. Every time you have to check the ice. But, at the other hand, there is your scientific motivation. And I always took into account the icebreaker motto, "If you don't do it when you come to it, you will never come to it to do it again." So, once you have an opportunity to collect algae, you don't risk your lives - well, you should do it.

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Sweeney: Why did you choose not to return to Antarctica after your last trip there in 1967?

Zaneveld: Well, first of all, it was my age because I think they need some younger people than I was at that time, and, second, the accident caused me to walk for about three years rather difficulty, and this is not possible in the Antarctic.

Sweeney: In 1966 the Oceanographic Laboratory became the Institute of Oceanography. In May 1967 the Institute opened new laboratory facilities at Little Creek. What did these changes mean for your program?

Zaneveld: This meant for the program, of course, a tremendous expansion of the work, especially both in teaching and in research. There were more students that took our courses, and also students from other universities.

Sweeney: In June 1966, the National Academy of Sciences team recommended the immediate establishment of a major graduate department in oceanography at Old Dominion College. How significant was this favorable report in leading to the State Council, of Higher Education's approval at its meeting of January 4, 1968, of the Master of Science Degree program with a concentration in Oceanography?

Zaneveld: Well, as a matter of fact, you ought to have a Masters Degree to be able to educate a student more completely for a job outside the university community. We were very happy that the Board reacted so favorably on our proposal, which, of course, therefore could develop to a full degree program.

Sweeney: How did you come to obtain your research vessels for the graduate program?

Zaneveld: Well, our first vessel was an open sloop, which was bought at the Norfolk Salvage Shipyard, and subsequently we got some smaller boats presented by interested citizens. We were able to use these boats and have the upkeep of it. Then, of course, later on we obtained the larger vessel.

Sweeney: In the National Academy of Sciences report, it was stated that you had lined up impressive local support for the institute. Could you elaborate on this?

Zaneveld: Yes. Here again, the newspaper writings of Bob Hutchinson and Edgar Edwards and then the support of the Coast Guard, where

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Admiral at that time was very much in favor of having a research institute in this area. We had support of the Chamber of Commerce, of the Women's Club of Norfolk, who even presented the first chair in oceanography, and then other organizations, like the Tidewater Angler's Club, the Norfolk County Angler's Club, the Cape Charles Angler's Club -all these organizations lined up to give their approval of having this program instituted here.

Sweeney: What was the student response to the new graduate program in oceanography?

Zaneveld: In short, an increasing number of students, increasing each semester. They were excited about the program. When we started we had mainly students coming from the Navy, Navy officers that were stationed here and took a number of courses, but when the program, when the new graduate program was installed, we could get students from all kinds of life.

Sweeney: One research project I have not mentioned was a biological survey of the waters of the Chesapeake Bay. This effort was described as an Undergraduate Research Participation Program. Could you give me more information on this program?

Zaneveld: Yes, this early program on the ecology of the waters of the Chesapeake Bay was started around 1961 and was meant to educate undergraduate students in marine bio-science, particularly to let them partake in research possibilities. That's the reason that we got so much money each year that five to six students could study marine life off the Chesapeake estuary.

Sweeney: How successful were you in obtaining federal grants for laboratory equipment and instruments in setting up the graduate program in oceanography?

Zaneveld: Well, I think that we did reasonably well. We obtained several grants including one matching grant, which was the real thing to have to obtain quite a number of the usually very expensive instruments that you need to develop the graduate program.

Sweeney: Could you describe the working relationship between the Institute of Oceanography and the Virginia Institute of Marine Science?

Zaneveld: We have always had a rather close working relationship. We used the library facilities there extensively because they had a

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fantastic, good marine science library. We used specialist help if we needed it. We also used the Pathfinder, the early ship of the Institute, so that, indeed, the stimulus that we got from the Virginia Institute of Marine Science cannot be lightly forgotten.

Sweeney: In 1966, you attended the Second International Oceanographic Congress at Moscow and delivered a paper on your research in Antarctica. Did you have any difficulty arranging this trip in those pre-detente days?

Zaneveld: Well, difficulties insofar that during our trip to Moscow we were kept in the Warsaw airport for a complete day. They took my passport away, and I was locked in a room and was not even allowed to see the city or even to go outside. Then, of course, I had changed rubles at New York airport, and these rubles were confiscated in Moscow because it's not allowed to bring in any Russian money from the outside.

Sweeney: In 1967 the Norfolk Foundation granted the Institute $50,000 and the Slover estate provided funds to supplement professors salaries. What did these additional funds mean to your department, and did you receive an endowed chair from the Slover bequest?

Zaneveld: Well, as a matter of fact, here again the money was spent for professors salaries. That meant an increase in the faculty of the department. And I got, indeed, the first Slover chair in oceanography.

Sweeney: For many years, you were active in the Boy Scouts as Chief Scout of the Boy Scouts of Indonesia (1948-1952) and the Chief Scout of the Netherlands (1953-1955). Did you continue your involvement with the Boy Scouts in America, and why did you think this organization was so important?

Zaneveld: Yes, I was until 1964 the chairman of the leadership training in the United States. I was a corps director and am still a, corps director for my life, which means that we can set up internationally recognized leadership training in this area. I think that the Boy Scout organization is one of the most important youth movements in the world because it stimulates character training. We try to develop more active leadership in the Boy Scouts program, and this is a necessity in a democratic society.

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Sweeney: How did you react to the U. S. Board of Geographic Names naming a glacier in Antarctica the "Zaneveld Glacier"?

Zaneveld: Well, this was an honor bestowed upon me by the United States Board of Geographic Names, and I must say it was a cool honor.

Sweeney: What was "Project Reef" carried out under the auspices of the Institute of Oceanography in September 1968? What value did the artificial reef have for ODU oceanographic students?

Zaneveld: Well, this was really the first great reef that could be established in the Chesapeake Bay. We had to over-win a tremendous amount of difficulties, but finally we got the consent of putting this reef down. It consisted of about eight hundred old cars, and we could experience here that marine life is starting to grow on and in between the openings of the old wrecks. After this a more elaborate program has been established in underwater reefs, which is now guided by the Tidewater Artificial Reef Association of Virginia.

Sweeney: Were you not instrumental in the founding of a separate nursing department? Why did you believe that nursing must be separated from biology?

Zaneveld: Well, the thing was that part of the courses could be taught to both biology students and nursing students, but in general, since the nursing is an applied science, they could be better served when they had their own program. And that is, I think, the reason that I tried and was successful in establishing this new nursing department.

Sweeney: What happened to your suggestion that a separate department of horticulture be formed?

Zaneveld: Well that is a program that has not been realized. We started horticulture classes at evening, and well-known Mr. Heutte was even on the staff and taught several courses at ODU. We have two times appointed an horticultural assistant professor, but both left after one year because it seemed that at that time ODU was not enough interested to pursue this program.

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Sweeney: In August of 1973 a doctoral program in oceanography at Old Dominion University received final approval. Was this the attainment of one of your greatest goals? And what has the program meant to the teaching of oceanography at this institution?

Zaneveld: Yes, as a matter of fact this was the greatest goal that I had. This program meant, of course, raising the standards of teaching of oceanography, developing more in-depth research programs and long-term research programs so that the oceanography institution came to its full development after this degree was awarded.

Sweeney: You spent your last year on the ODU faculty on leave. I believe you were the first American to go to Czechoslovakia in renewed cultural and scientific exchange after the 1968 uprising. Could you describe your work at the University in Prague with Dr. Bohuslov Fott?

Zaneveld: Well, my stay in Prague and in Czechoslovakia in general was a real interesting one. It's good to see how a country like Czechoslovakia that is guarded by Russia works. I worked with Dr. Fott mainly on neuston, which is a group of organisms that lives against the surface layer of the water. Our results in this respect were quite extensive, and publications are forthcoming.

Sweeney: Why did you feel that the U. S. Academy of Sciences award was the most distinguished that you had received?

Zaneveld: Well, there are very few Americans that are selected for such an award, and, well, when you are one of those, I think that you may consider this as a real distinction of your work in the past.

Sweeney: In 1974 you were awarded an Antarctic Service Medal in connection with your expeditions to Antarctica. Who awarded this medal, and did you attach any special significance to the award?

Zaneveld: This medal was awarded by the United States Department of State, and I consider this, again, as an appreciation of your work.

Sweeney: During the 1960's, you made many speeches in which you declared that man in the future might have to find more and more of his material requirements in the ocean. In the light of the recent

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energy crisis and the widespread starvation in the world, your statements contain an almost prophetic quality. How do you feel the last decade has borne out your predictions in regard to our need to farm and mine the sea, especially that submarine agriculture is the key to the world's food crisis?

Zaneveld: What I then said is still true. But the thing is that their money situation has been not very well since that time. Certain experimental experiments have been started in areas like cultivating shrimp, cultivating algae, but in general the fact that not enough money is available makes it difficult to realize this farming and mining of the sea. So many questions have to be solved in this respect because we are not going to eat the seaweeds as you see them growing in the sea. We have to do the same thing as we did with our sugar cane; they have to be cultivated, hybrids have to be cultivated, and so on, and so on. And that same type of work has to be done in the water.

Sweeney: Has the United States done as much as you expected to extract raw materials and food from the sea over the past ten years?

Zaneveld: Well, my answer is flatly "No."

Sweeney: You have criticized the emerging educational mission of Old Dominion University for an excessive concern with vocational training and not enough emphasis on research. Could you elaborate on this insight?

Zaneveld: Applied scientific work appeals, of course, to the public, and it's easier to get money for applied scientific work than for basic scientific work. But basic scientific work is the work that develops new areas which we did not explore before. And if we want to continue to be ahead of the problems with regard to food that we face in the near future, we should support as much basic science as possible.

Sweeney: In 1966 President Lyndon B. Johnson issued his national oceanographic program entitled Effective Use of the Sea. Has the U.S. government followed up on the recommendations of that report? Does oceanographic research today command the level of funding by the federal government, which you believe it deserves?

Zaneveld: Well, I think that indeed President Kennedy and President Lyndon Johnson both have stimulated research on a very broad level in the United States. There's no question about it that we have

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made real big advances in this respect. Well, as I think I told already before, the funding by the federal government is, when you look upon it from the oceanographic point of view, has never been enough. A lot of money is always turned to the bigger universities, whereas sometimes a smaller university could do a more in-depth study of certain problems than a bigger university can do.

Sweeney: Years before the beginning of an organized environmental movement, you made several statements about the destructive forces man himself has unleashed on his environment and the probable effects of this devastation. Do you believe that the problems of water pollution and the dumping of radioactive wastes into the ocean basins have intensified over the past decade?

Zaneveld: Yes, there is no doubt about it that these radioactive wastes and so on have intensified over the past decade. We just had the example here in the immediate surrounding, and thousands of bird's have been killed by an oil spill. Yes, of course, the population growth is one of the, main problems, and, second, the industrial developments, which are partly necessary because of the population growth. Then, of course, we have the development of the plastic industries. Plastics are not degradable forms, and therefore they will stay with us as long as we live. We should, indeed, be very careful to use those chemicals and other applied materials that could be degraded and that we could take care of in more way of recycling.

Sweeney: Do you favor the extension of US territorial waters to 200 miles offshore in order to protect our fishing grounds from foreign competition?

Zaneveld: Yes, I think since other countries have this 200 miles offshore zone already for many, many years that it is impossible to stay out and not to have these 200 miles offshore zoned. Moreover, it's, not only, of course, fishing that these fishing ships do. Therefore, I see it also as a necessity for the protection of our national freedom.

Sweeney: In 1966 you wrote that in the near future we will have beneath the sea farms, mining operations, houses, and laboratories and deep submersible vehicles carrying people anywhere they want to travel. Could you assess that prediction in the light of developments over the past ten years?

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Zaneveld: Well, in the past ten years we have developed the so-called saturation diving. That means that we have established underwater laboratories that from rare diving could be done. This means that a diver has not to come up to the surface and has to decompress all the time. Therefore, saturation diving as it is experienced now in the Virgin Islands and off the California coast, I think, is a most worthwhile experiment to see that some of the things that I described and, I think, are still valid for the near future, like underwater mining operations and sea farms, can be established.

Sweeney: What research interests are you pursuing currently, Dr. Zaneveld?

Zaneveld: Well, currently I am working on my extensive Antarctic algae collections. I hope to publish as much of this as possible so that it becomes available to the scientific literature. And moreover I am finishing a textbook on marine biology.

Sweeney: In retrospect, what do you consider to have been your chief contributions to science?

Zaneveld: I think that having established and developed oceanographic institutions, one in Curacao and one in the United States, is one of the main contributions. The fact that these institutions became centers for marine research and for the teaching of marine science is certainly one of the chief contributions that has, been worked out.

Sweeney: Thank you very much, Dr. Zaneveld.