Haisten: Well Mr. Gresham, we'd like to learn a little about you and your background. Let's talk about your parents first. Were they from this area?

Gresham: My father was born in Indiana and like General MacArthur, he was sort of born away from home. His father was a Virginian, but his mother was a Hoosier. So he was born in Indiana but moved back to Virginia at a very early age. My mother was a Tarheel from a little town of Elm City which is between Wilson and Rocky Mountain, North Carolina and she, of course, moved to Norfolk when my folks were married in 1916.

Haisten: What did your father do for a living?

Gresham: Before he came to Norfolk, he was a salesman for a coal company and was based in West Virginia. Just prior to going to work with the coal company (perhaps I should have told you a little earlier that when his family came back to Virginia after his birth, he lived in Caroline County some what north of Richmond and part of his education was in Richmond at the Old Richmond Academy), he went to work in Richmond briefly, I believe. As a traveling salesman for the coal company, he traveled all through Eastern Virginia and North Carolina and really that's how he came in contact with my mother in Eastern North Carolina.

Haisten: I know you've got the E. T. Gresham Company now. When did he start this and how did he get into it really?

Gresham: A good many things happened in my dad's life almost simultaneously. He married my mother in June of 1916, he settled down in Norfolk, and gave up the traveling salesman role, traded in their automobile that he traveled in as a down payment on a truck, and in October was in business with a truck and a telephone in the home and as best as I can learn, he had no other means of transportation. But he did start out in the hauling business and had one of the first three or four motor trucks in the city of Norfolk. This hauling business expanded quite rapidly in that period which was the outset of World War I. I don't know that you want me to get in to a whole lot of detail about the business, but that's how it originated, at least E. T. Gresham Company.

Haisten: Well, is he still active, like in the company or in the community?

Gresham: Officially he's been retired of quite a number of years, but he certainly has not lost contact with the business. He's 86 now; and is at the office almost every day,

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but he doesn't have as much an active role, of course, as he did at one time.

Haisten: Since your business is based in Norfolk and your father really started it here, are you from Norfolk or were you born in Norfolk?

Gresham: Yes, I was born in Norfolk almost exactly a year after the business was founded and, in fact, when we celebrate the business anniversary every year with an employees' dinner, we normally have to juggle the dates a little bit one way or the other so that the two birthdays don't conflict.

Haisten: Is your wife from this area? Where did you meet her?

Gresham: She was born in Norfolk and she's truly a native as I am.

Haisten: Do you have any children? I know of one son -- I've met him, and what are they doing now?

Gresham: Well, we have two sons, actually we had three sons and the oldest son died a number of years ago. The oldest of the other two boys is Bill who graduated in civil engineering technology a couple of years ago. He's active in the business. The other son, Richard, got his degree in architecture at Virginia Tech and he's currently working in an architectural office in Richmond.

Haisten: Yourself, what professional or social organizations and which church do you belong to or are you associated with?

Gresham: Well, you've given me a pretty good size order there. I got my bachelors degree in mechanical engineering in 1940 from Virginia Tech and I have practiced engineering to a limited degree in connection with our business.

I belong to the usual professional societies, the Virginia Society of Professional Engineers, the Engineer's Club of Hampton Roads. You asked about my church affiliation, that's Talbot Park Baptist and currently I'm a trustee at that church.

Haisten: Any social organizations other than the professional?

Gresham: Well, I belong to Norfolk Yacht and Country Club and The Harbor Club. have been fairly active in fraternal affairs. I was Master of Ruth Lodge ... Masons last year and well, I've had some activity on various boards and commissions and so on, but you're not interested in the details of all them, I don't expect.

Haisten: I know you've been talking about the company and I understand your association with it. Can you tell me exactly what position you hold and what your responsibilities are to the company?

Gresham: Well. I'm president of the company since my father stepped down from that position a number of years ago.

Haisten: How did you prepare for it? I know you said you went to Virginia Tech with engineering. Did that help you and did you go to maybe any other schools or something that would help you with the company?

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Gresham: Not except in the sense of taking short courses and night classes at Old Dominion University, and I might add that I started out at Old Dominion when it was familiarly known as Larchmont Tech way back. At that time it was the Norfolk Division of Virginia Poly Tech Institute. So I did spend my freshman year here in Norfolk and then transferred to the mother school in Blacksburg. Well, that pretty well sums up any formal training that I had.

My experience in the Navy, however, was a very valuable, practical experience because I was on an unusual type of job during most of the war. I was attached to landing force equipment depos. Most of the time I had the responsibility for developing, operating, and maintaining heavy equipment and specialized types of equipment for handling landing craft. A good deal of that experience has stood me in good stand in our business which, of course, is pretty well known for heavy hauling, rigging, and crane service.

Haisten: You brought up World War II, I know that your father's company was involved in work with the government during the War. Can you tell me what exactly they did? You brought up the landing craft. I think he had something to do with that.

Gresham: Not particularly. Going back to World War II, it's always been interesting to me that my father was not drafted. He was about to be drafted, he says, when the Armistice was signed, but he and his entire small organization were sworn in to what was at that time called, the Secret Service because with the very few motor trucks that were available in this area, he and his men were engaged in handling secret types of military material, particularly mine sweeping gear. So they were all members of what was called the Secret Service. Then during World War II, our company was quite active , though I wasn't here during much of that period. The company was quite active in military construction in this area.

Haisten: After World War II, I believe, this is when you joined your father's company. Can you tell us any of the highlights of big jobs you might have been connected with, your company has been involved in?

Gresham: Actually I joined the company just before the War. I finished school in 1940 and had around two years in the business before I was called to active duty in the Naval Reserve. To answer your question about the association with large work, we are a business that is not generally engaged in large work. We sometimes jokingly say that we're a short- order business and nothing is too small.

We have had in the construction line, we have had a number of very interesting jobs of which we are proud, restoration work as an example. We did the complete restoration work for the MacArthur Memorial in Norfolk and we also have done complete renovation, restoration type work in the Myer's House, the Lynnhaven House. Some of such work in the Thoroughgood House and a number of others that I don't recall right at the moment.

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All the examples of the high grade construction that we're proud of, might include the two most modern units of the Chrysler Museum, a number of church construction jobs, various projects in local hospitals, and banks. They're the ones that came to mind at the moment. Some of the larger jobs we've done are not particularly interesting or spectacular because they're industrial in nature. Warehouses or manufacturing plants and so on. Some of them right here in the local area and some of them somewhat more remote.

Haisten: Sounds like you all are busy. In these restoration projects, I guess, the associations or whatever that were getting the restorations done, did they give you information about what to do or did your company actually have to go back and do its own research in building techniques and things like this?

Gresham: A lot of ways in old historic buildings, always there's a certain amount of research and uncovering of conditions, and that type of thing, of course, is particularly interesting. I don't know that I could go into very much detail about that.

It might be interesting to tell you, for example, that in the case of the MacArthur Memorial, this building was the Old Court House as you well know. To construct the MacArthur Memorial, the intent was to preserve the external appearance completely of the Old Court House. So it was necessary to go inside the building and almost literally take every thing out except the shell. Meanwhile doing so somewhat involved structural work to support the dome, to place a specialized type of piles within the building so that when the work was completed, really there was a museum type structure built within the old walls and almost completely independent of the shell which had been there before. There was a separation for example, at the top so that the Memorial itself was isolated from the dome as far as any such thing as spread of fire, for example might be involved. That type of thing represents unusual and challenging type of work, of course, but things are not apparent on the outside to the general public.

Haisten: Going to ODU, I've noticed that there is a Gresham Hall there. Is there any connection between it and your family?

Gresham: Yes, my father as you probably know has been quite a figure in the community. He's been generous with Old Dominion and they were nice enough to name one of the residence halls for him several years ago. He also has a street named for him, but Norfolk General Hospital is located upon it.

Haisten: Sounds like you've had a pretty busy life. Have you missed work? Do you ever find time for leisure or travels? Are there any that are notable for you or that you'd like to tell us about?

Gresham: Well, this is right much of a joke with my wife and from the rare occasions that we've had a real vacation, usually she's had very little notice or very little chance to plan them. But usually we get our vacation on an occasional long weekend on the spur of the moment when work will permit it.

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That's one of the difficulties of being involved in a service type of business and being tied very closely to it. We have had several nice trips. During the war, I was stationed on the West Coast for somewhat over a year, and while that wasn't exactly a nice trip, it was good to be able to travel across country and in very limited opportunity to move around, see a few of the sites near San Francisco during the war and at points in between. Two of us did have an opportunity to see something of America that way. On several occasions we've had trips in this country to such places as New England in the fall, and Florida in the winter, but there's nothing particularly notable about any of those trips. We also have had together, a couple of trips to Europe. They have been very enjoyable. I think, in most every case, our trips over there have been just about a week in duration so they've been quite brief.

Haisten: Since you are Norfolksian, you've been in this area all your life. Are there any individuals that you have come in contact with through your company or just through your own activities, of note, or somebody you really remember or you've got to tell us about?

Gresham: Well, I've met a good many wonderful people in Norfolk through associations such as the Boards of The YMCA, the Symphony Association, the Salvation Army, and others I don't recall right at the moment. Certainly there are some wonderful people around here that I do think of. You ask about people that I've come in contact with. It's difficult to answer that because I've come in contact with many wonderful people especially in connection with my alma mater. I do serve on the Alumni Association Board and the Educational Foundation at VPI and I've met many wonderful people that I've found in the state and the nation through those connections. I think locally the type of folks that I would think of, would be the men who have been leaders in local worthwhile organizations, the Community Chest, the medical center hospitals, for example, men and ladies who have been named first citizens at various times. I would be hard pressed to call off names without omitting somebody really important, so perhaps I better not do that.

Haisten: Do you have any comments about your life in Norfolk? Maybe about its future or how things have changed in the city?

Gresham: Well, things have certainly changed in my lifetime, the city and its surroundings have developed tremendously. I think that Norfolk is a fine place to live from the standpoint of climate and the pace of life here and such as that. I think it is attractive and I believe that the number of military people who retire here is evidence of the regard that many people have of this section.

Norfolk, of course, is not a highly industrialized city, nor is the Tidewater area. I think that there is some restriction here or restraint upon business. We're not inherently a wealthy area, of course. I am bound to think of these things in connection with our business.

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I think that we only have the potential for limited growth because of the pretty fair part of business we do, is related to shipping, water front work, ship repair, handling of cargo, and of course, activities that are related to naval installations here.

Norfolk and the surrounding area is terribly handicapped by shortage of land. I expect that you read what the newspaper said this morning about the values here and all across the country. It's very interesting because it reveals that the average price of land here is among the highest in the country. And yet it's easy to understand why, a whole lot of area is water and with land being scarce, the cost is quite high. But I think the area has potential, particularly with the redevelopment that is taking place here within our own city limits and I think we've got a bright future.

Haisten: Mr. Gresham, you were mentioning how your company did a lot with the shipping in Norfolk, can you really, sort of, tell us how your company has changed or grown with the city of Norfolk?

Gresham: Well, the company evolved from originally a hauling business, originally hauling building materials primarily. That quickly expanded into rigging and somewhat later into crane service. My father was a pioneer in mobile cranes, anyway in this part of the country which was some-thing over fifty years ago. The business has always been closely related to construction although it has been better known because of the more obvious cranes that are running around all the time, but we've done quite a lot of construction and at the present time, our company is the oldest name in construction in this area.

We do another type of work which is quite interesting I think, but not so evident, and that's industrial maintenance which includes all matter of construction and repair and upkeep in industrial plants, primarily here in local areas but sometimes extending some distance from Norfolk.

As to the changes that have taken place, the changes largely are of evolution, I think, the construction methods and in types of cranes that are available now. The crane service business started off with a real crude type of machine that would lift six tons and nowadays we frequently lift loads up around one hundred tons. So there's been a change, a big evolution in our lifting type of equipment.

Other than that, the more modern construction methods, I think, are one of the most interesting things. I guess this is perhaps too technical to go into. I would like to make one comment though.

Nowadays, I frequently have people who say well I see you're tearing down Norfolk. We do provide crane service especially for a lot of demolition work. But somehow we don't take so much pride in that sort of thing. We would much rather be building up than tearing down. Regardless of how we feel, a lot of our work is work that's done under emergency conditions, work that's not really productive, rerailing trains, for example. We frequently handled derailments in this part of the country and other types of accidents. We've participated in some spectacular demolition.

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For example, you'll recall the Monticello Hotel demolition several years ago, well, we of course were a sub-contractor to a very fine national firm that blasted the hotel. Those things are spectacular and they're interesting but comparitively rare of course. But I do wish more of what we're doing would be constructive rather than helping people out who are in trouble or tearing down slums.

Haisten: Have you ever had any problems, your company, like with city ordinances or with things like that? I know you hear of a lot of construction companies that are in constant battle with the city or the area if they don't like what they're doing.

Gresham: Well, we have found the authorities very fair, of course, in city government and all levels of government it's much more difficult to do business nowadays because of the great amount of regulation that's taken place. It's quite difficult to keep up with those things but I think that our local officials are particularly fine good to work with. No, we don't have any complaint along this line.

Haisten: Are there any other comments you'd like to make about your company or the city? How has being a member of the Gresham family affected your life?

Gresham: We take a lot of pride in our business and we've been at it for sixty-two years and we plan to keep it going for a long time yet. All of us in the business are getting older, but we have a number of very fine young people who are training in the business. We have high hopes for the future.

We do not have as a goal to become the largest in the world at all. We think it's more important to do the best possible job on a small scale rather than to just see how big a splash you can make. We've seen a good many people come and go in our various lines of business. We have locally a good spirit between competitors. The comment I was about to make was that some of the competition we have faced locally has made a big splash for a little while and then it's passed off the scene. That's the type of thing that we don't want to happen to us and certainly hope it will not.

Haisten: Any other comments?

Gresham: Well, I don't know of any, but it's been a real pleasure to talk these things over with you and I hope when you play back this tape, it doesn't sound like one great commercial.

Haisten: I'm sure it won't. I've got one final question for you, Mr. Gresham. When will Virginia Tech have a successful football season?

Gresham: I'll answer that the way President Bill Avery has been answering it lately. Several times I've been in meetings where he has reported on the health of the institution. His standard approach nowadays is to say, well, gentlemen I'm here tonight to talk about Miss America. He does avoid talking about athletics. I think that we'll do better shortly. We'll just have to give Coach Doolittle a little more time.

Haisten: Thank you very much.

Gresham: Thank you Cecile.

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