Major: How did you start being involved with the Symphony?
Baldwin: With the Symphony?
Major : Mmm-hmm.
Baldwin: Oh, there’s nothing to it. I came to Norfolk about fifty years ago or a little bit more, and there was a charming little lady called Grace Ferebee. And she thought I would make a good candidate to boost the symphony. And that’s how I became involved – Grace Ferebee. And I don’t even have her book, and I used to have three books, and somebody has them, and I probably put them on loan, and I don’t even have one.
Major : I’ve read her book.
Baldwin: The book?
Major : Yeah, I’ve read her book.
Baldwin: Oh, well, I am the only one I know of this vintage that made it in the book.
Major : Well.
Baldwin: I was, I was just nobody, and I was asked to promote the Virginia Symphony when we had our meetings down at the museum. Do any of you remember that day?
Major: No.
Baldwin: It was the Chrysler Museum, and the meetings were held at Chrysler Hall. And I was, loved to go to those meetings, and I loved everything about music, and I had music all my life, and this seemed just the right thing. And that’s how I became involved, was through Grace Ferebee.
Major: And you became involved first with the Women’s Auxiliary. Is that right?
Baldwin: I was the third president.
[2]
Major: Of the Women’s Auxiliary?
Baldwin: Yes. And I was also a president later when they ran out [laughing] and recycled.
Major: Do you remember about what year it was that you became involved first with the Auxiliary?
Baldwin: You know, they had different dates from my memory. I was the third president, and the first president was Katherine West, a doctor’s wife. And the second president was Johnnie Allen, somebody who came to Norfolk because of the Navy. And I was the third president. And then it goes on and on and on into ___ we’re all presidents eventually. The thing I did most really was with the Youth Orchestra.
Major: Really? And the Youth Orchestra started in the ‘50s, right?
Baldwin: Well, they have different dates, and I have a piece of silver as a farewell for being the president that don’t have the same dates that they have, so I keep my dates. And I--that way became involved with the whole picture through being the president of the Women’s Auxiliary, they called them.
Major: Mmm-hmm. And sometime in your early involvement with the Auxiliary, you came onto the Symphony Board, right?
Baldwin: I did what?
Major: Didn’t, didn’t you serve on…
Baldwin: Yes, I probably did.
Major: I read in the thing in the bul-… in the program on Saturday night… the little biographical thing that you were the first woman to serve on the symphony board.
Baldwin: I was. They didn’t want any women on the board.
Major: I’ll bet.
Baldwin: In fact, I said, “I won’t be on your board if you have to be a woman to be on. If you can’t be a woman and have all the privileges of voting, count me out.” And so that’s how I got in. I just, they were, they had board meetings just as they do right this, right now. And they’re very, very similar.
Major: Really?
[3]
Baldwin: Very, very, in size and scope and the size of the board. Also, they were about as successful as they are now, which isn’t very successful at times.
Major: Was successful in terms of?
Baldwin: Of being really leaders of what we were, what was our scope and what we were trying to accomplish. And we did start the first getting people together and getting their children together and having a youth orchestra.
Major: Mmm-hmm. And from what I’ve read, I gather that was a good sized orchestra, a large orchestra, youth orchestra.
Baldwin: It was what?
Major: Was it a large youth orchestra?
Baldwin: Yes. It was pretty good for what it was, I guess [laughing]. Nothing like it is now, but as years went on, and we grew, we were then introducing all kinds of artists through our Women’s Auxiliary. And we really had good artists, honestly, as good as we do today except for JoAnn, who has her own way. I mean her own interests, but I would say we were, we did it ourselves everything on Saturday mornings at Blair Junior High School.
Major: Really?
Baldwin: We had Dennis Brown. You’ve probably never even heard of him. He was our…
Major: I don’t know the name.
Baldwin: Dennis Brown… and he is not here right now, but I understand his wife can be reached. She was Jeannette Brown. And we did do things, and we lured our young people with Coca Colas on Saturday morning. And we had good sized orchestras, and lots of interest. That was our big interest was our youth orchestra.
Major: Really? What made the symphony board bring the president of the Women’s Auxiliary onto the Board?
Baldwin: I think it’s in Grace Ferebee’s book, but I’m not sure because there weren’t many of us. Let me see. What do they say in your notes?
Major: They don’t say anything about why a Women’s Auxiliary member was on…
Baldwin: …was formed…
[4]
Major: No, was brought onto the symphony board. When they invited you to become a member of the Symphony Board, do you know why they initiated that?
Baldwin: Well, I think we were just doing our own thing. Just that little orchestra was pretty good, and Dennis Brown was there on Saturday mornings with his Coca Colas. I don’t know that-- you know the history of it might be found in a-- I have a big thick book written by-- you know who I mean. They just named a building after him, Dennis Brown, no, not Dennis Brown. Who was that? Why do these things leave me just when I want them?
Major: It happens to all of us. You don’t mean Ludwig Diehn?
Baldwin: Yes, I do. [laughing]
Major: Good.
Baldwin: Yes. If you think that book will do you any good, I would be glad to let you peruse through it. And it’s bound to have some philosophies in-- it was when Dennis, not Dennis…
Major: Ludwig.
Baldwin: Why do I keep saying that? Ludwig Diehn was the, came over here, you know, during the last war. That’s why he settled here. He had a terrible life over here. People tried to chase him away because he was German, and but he stuck it out and had enough money to stick it out. I don’t remember that we did. I think it was just a natural evolution that we had the Youth Orchestra. Not, we’re trying to do something, but yet we are. And of course Ludwig was a very potent member of that forming of the Youth Orchestra.
Major: Mmm-hmm. And I gather he served on the board a good deal of time.
Baldwin: Oh yes he did. I was a secretary of the board for seventeen years.
Major: My gosh.
Baldwin: And I’ve got—imagine-- If you want to believe what I think, you read that book.
Major: All right. [laughing]
Baldwin: It’s about, it’s about this thick, and I have kept it away from fire. We’ve had a couple of fires and lost a lot of the good things because it was not stored in the proper place. And that’s… during those years, that was when Ludwig Diehn was the secretary. And he was secretary before I was. So if you can get something out of that, it will be very, really the real thing.
[5]
Major: I, I’m sure that it would be very valuable. I’d love to see it.
Baldwin: Well, I’ll be glad to let you have it, and nobody gave it to me. I just kept it because I had a big attic, and I didn’t want to destroy history.
Major: Wonderful. Wonderful.
Baldwin: I didn’t touch it. I didn’t do a thing. I have it upstairs right this minute, and I’ll be glad to let you have it, and go _____-- It isn’t mine after all. It isn’t mine to give away, but I seem to think it’s found a nice home.
Major: The Library would really consider it valuable. We would really like to have it.
Baldwin: Well, a lot of funny things happened. I was not on the board when – who was that other person way back when there was interested – Whitehead.
Major: Yes.
Baldwin: I came on with a…
Major: Was it Schenkman?
Baldwin: Yeah, Edgar.
Major: Edgar Schenkman.
Baldwin: And the funny thing is, Edgar Schenkman was from Denver.
Major: I didn’t know that.
Baldwin: Yes.
Major: Well.
Baldwin: I knew him in the days we played tag.
Major: [laughing] I see. You must have lived in the same part of Denver.
Baldwin: He, I came here because of the, the war was on. Everybody came here because we were in a war. And we had a Pan-Hellenic association of women who met about once a month. Not music, but one time when we were getting a program up, we invited Edgar. You should have gotten me five years ago. I could tell you more. Because we needed a program for our Pan-Hellenic meeting, at our luncheon meetings, and Edgar Schenkman was asked to be the program.
[6]
And I couldn’t resist. When they introduced him, he was from Denver. And Marguerite, his wife, also.
Major: That I didn’t know.
Baldwin: Well, they were from other places, too, but I think Edgar went to Juilliard…
Major: Yeah, he came here from Juilliard, I know, but I didn’t know that he started life in Denver.
Baldwin: Well, I don’t know why he was in Denver, and he was just invited to be on this program in Norfolk, Virginia during the war.
Major: Yes.
Baldwin: And here we all were, and I went up afterwards, and I couldn’t resist the fact that Edgar and I were both from Denver.
Major: Yes.
Baldwin: And Marguerite from then on made my bread. [laughing] She was a good cook, excellent cook.
Major: Also a good violinist.
Baldwin: Oh, yes. And this year I didn’t get a Christmas card from her. It’ll be the first year that Marguerite didn’t send me one. I don’t know if she was having illness or having what, and I didn’t pursue.
Major: Right. What was the Symphony like under Edgar Schenkman?
Baldwin: I thought it was great. I think I can find some programs if you’d like them.
Major: Okay. So as far as you can tell, the Edgar Schenkman period was a very positive period for the Symphony?
Baldwin: Yes. I tell you, it was very funny, right in that room over there, one Sunday afternoon. I was sitting over there, and they were trying to decide whether or not Edgar Schenkman should leave Norfolk and go to Richmond, or whether they should kick him out.
Major: Oh! They were trying to decide. Who is they?
[7]
Baldwin: They were trying to decide whether-- how much we would in money, could we afford to let him go. In fact, out there in that back yard, the Richmond Symphony was formed. It was, it was a nothing symphony. We were the something’s.
Major: Yes. The Norfolk Symphony predated Richmond by quite a bit, didn’t it?
Baldwin: And they were, and we invited all of the Richmond Symphony to Norfolk for Sunday night supper right out there. Also right out there, what in the heck is their name, and you know it as well as I do in the orchestra now.
Major: Give me a hint.
Baldwin: I know you know. It’ll come around.
Major: Do you mean Steve and Patti?
Baldwin: No. He plays the, he has a wife named Patti, and she plays the clarinet.
Major: Steve Carlson and Patti Carlson.
Baldwin: Yes. Steve and… Steve, the first concert he ever played in this area was right out there.
Major: For heaven’s sake.
Baldwin: Just-- he had just come to town from Michigan, and he, we were having some kind of _______. That back yard was pretty big, and it holds lots of people, and we would have affairs back there. And all of these present stars were in, were learning to be stars. In fact, Steve’s daughter who was just married, we arranged his party after the wedding through our membership in the country club.
Major: I see.
Baldwin: And so the Carlson’s have been good friends of ours ever since.
Major: So tell me some more about… they were deciding to push Edgar Schenkman out.
Baldwin: Oh, they were always, they were always deciding to do that.
Major: Why was that?
Baldwin: They wanted somebody else, probably. [laughing]
Major: Anybody else or just somebody?
[8]
Baldwin: Yes. And I’ll tell you who I was talking to. His wife is now very prominent down at the Chrysler Museum. What in the heck is her name? Linda…
Major: Kaufman.
Baldwin: Kaufman. George Kaufman and I were sitting in that room that Sunday afternoon trying to decide what to do about Edgar Schenkman.
Major: And what did you finally decide?
Baldwin: We just talked. We didn’t decide anything.
Major: But when Edgar Schenkman left, did he leave because people were always thinking of pushing him out?
Baldwin: Edgar Schenk-- lots of stories, and I don’t, I’m not a carrier of stories. There were lots of people that wanted to have a different person to lead the, but he brought us some very wonderful music during his era.
Major: Good programming?
Baldwin: Oh, excellent.
Major: And the symphony, did the symphony…
Baldwin: We… I don’t believe we’ve ever had programming. I shouldn’t say this, but this is my opinion that we had excellent programming during the Edgar Schenkman’s time.
Major: And did the symphony improve steadily in that time?
Baldwin: Oh yes. We had sold-out houses all the time. It was nothing. We were, not to have a sold-out house. If I, I know can find some of those old programs.
Major: That would be great.
Baldwin: And you would see how good they were under Edgar Schenkman.
Major: Well that’s, that’s interesting. I…
Baldwin: But I never… a person gets in there and fights and gets mad, and so I was not the one they sometimes turned to because I didn’t want to cause a mess.
Major: And when he left….
[9]
Baldwin: Because I liked it the way it was.
Major: Well, yes. I can see that. When he left, did it cause a mess?
Baldwin: Well, no. He was going to make a lot of money in Richmond.
Major: Really! They paid better in Richmond?
Baldwin: That’s right, and he was perfectly happy to go to Richmond. We weren’t-- I for one was not happy to have him going to Richmond. And so he went.
Major: One of the things that I have seen discussed over and over in the historical documents is that it was difficult to recruit musicians for the symphony here.
Baldwin: Of course. We didn’t have anything.
Major: Didn’t have anything?
Baldwin: Who wants to go and listen to somebody that has never had any background in giving you new ideas of how you present things.
Major: You mean that the audience didn’t have enough background? Is that what they… what they…
Baldwin: No. I don’t think it was the audience. I think the audience as all right, but I just think that there were a lot of politics.
Major: Really?
Baldwin: I didn’t get in the politics, so I don’t know what they were saying except that there was a lot.
Major: And that really stood in the way of recruiting musicians to play?
Baldwin: Oh, we had no music school here. Who wants to go hear music played by somebody that really doesn’t know what they’re doing? That was the idea. How could they know how to play anything if they’d never had experience? What did you hear? The same thing?
Major: One of the things that I have read over and over is that the symphony for so many years was a part-time gig. It wasn’t a full-time job.
Baldwin: Oh, that was awful. They didn’t have a, they never paid anybody enough to have anything good. We didn’t have any Juilliard in Norfolk. We still
[10]
don’t. How we, how we do what we do with what we have is a miracle. And then JoAnn Falletta came along and rocked the miracle some more.
Major: Mmm-hmm. Well that, that is certainly a theme I have read over and over and over again.
Baldwin: They had nobody to, no music schools.
Major: That’s right. There are no music, no strong music schools in all of Virginia.
Baldwin: I started the first community music school.
Major: Yes.
Baldwin: Edgar and I went to some businessmen here in town to try to get some money to start something, but nobody wants to.
Major: That first music school. I had read that it was considered very desirable because the public schools didn’t teach…
Baldwin: Tell me about it.
Major: You tell me about it.
Baldwin: I called up New York…
Major: Oh?
Baldwin: To the, the first,… I don’t know which is more important. We had nothing, absolutely nothing. There was-- who was-- you know, who had the bands here in Norfolk. They had a band.
Major: I don’t.
Baldwin: Yes, you do.
Major: Oh, the man who just died not too long ago, you mean.
Baldwin: Yes.
Major: The one who was with the Tidewater Winds.
Baldwin: Yes. You’re right.
Major: And also the Norfolk Schools.
[11]
Baldwin: Well, they, they did a good job, but in the beginning, they weren’t so hot.
Major: No. I’ll bet not.
Baldwin: And, you see, I hate to say this out loud. I don’t think I will.
Major: All right.
Baldwin: I don’t want to be quoted as that.
Major: All right.
Baldwin: But they had nothing here. And to try to get enough money to have a family. They had to live on just nothing.
Major: Mmm-hmm. They had to have other jobs besides the symphony.
Baldwin: That’s right. They had a second job. And they had to, if they’re, the best they could, and that was not very good.
Major: Right. Right.
Baldwin: It was-- they were cheap. It didn’t matter whether we had something good or not to all the people that lived around here. Well, they could go up to Philadelphia and hear anything or go to New York. Why should they bother? We had nothing.
Major: What about now? Is it easy or difficult to recruit musicians now?
Baldwin: The way that JoAnn does it, it’s very easy because they either could do it or they can’t.
Major: Mmm-hmm. Well, but they’re not getting rich on the salaries that the symphony pays now.
Baldwin: Well, we’re not having any trouble recruiting now.
Major: That’s, that’s what I wondered.
Baldwin: Well, we get them from all over the world because we have that whatever they have around here to try to get good musicians. They get them because they offer enough money.
Major: I see.
[12]
Baldwin: And it’s just that. Now, I went to some, a good many of the sessions where they come from everywhere, and they do it in a very good way behind a screen. Nobody knows who’s auditioning. And they’ve gotten-- then of course JoAnn’s branched out over, as I often say to her, she’s just… “you’re just as disloyal as you can be, going up to Buffalo, New York. “ [laughing] She’s heard me say that.
Major: Well, probably. But, but so ___________ her reputation now.
Baldwin: Well, she, she,… JoAnn is a very unusual person, not only being talented, but people like a nice attractive person like JoAnn is, and they listen to them. And she loves music that is new. That’s her favorite music. Well, I can’t say it’s mine because I’ve argued with her a good many times. But JoAnn is really hip, as they say, on having new music. And she’s been very successful in reaching a segment of the population who agrees with her. Now we’ve been very lucky in having her as long as we did. And really it scares me to think what could happen because who knows what somebody might offer her. And then we will be sitting around here as usual.
Major: One of the themes that I read repeatedly in the history is that the people here wanted a symphony conductor who would make his primary residence in this area and would make the Virginia Symphony his only symphony..
Baldwin. Secondary.
Major: No. His only, make the Virginia Symphony his only symphony, somebody who would come and settle here and only conduct the Virginia Symphony. I have read that over and over in the history, and that must have caused some complications in recruiting.
Baldwin: I don’t know. You see, I am a fundraiser. And my philosophy is not like most people’s. I think that for us not to support a wonderful program like JoAnn offers us without urging that they should just, everybody should automatically buy season tickets. I don’t have much tolerance for those people who-- and I don’t know when we’re going to get over that. I think it’s a philosophy they have, “Let’s get it cheap.”
Major: Maybe so.
Baldwin: Don’t you feel that sometimes?
Major: That’s possible. Yeah.
Baldwin: It’s hard to say that because I don’t want to condemn all the wonderful things they’ve done. But a lot could be done, and I, my part with the symphony
[13]
now, I’ll show you my latest thing—award for my philosophy. It’s in this next room. Right here.
Major: [reading award] “Winnie Maddock Baldwin in recognition of your unwavering dedication and tenacity, the Virginia Symphony Orchestra.” Oh, that is lovely.
Baldwin: That was last year.
Major: Oh, very nice.
Baldwin: And she sometimes appears in no stockings [laughing], but I’ve been doing. That sort of thing has been my cup of tea, shall we say. I can’t understand how people could go to these awful, awful things that they go to and throw away opportunities like, that we, JoAnn has given us. And that, I probably got that from Grace Ferebee.
Major: Because she was also a big supporter?
Baldwin: Yes. She was, we were supporters.
Major: Tell me about the couple of those guys that you hardly hear anything about: Winston Dan Vogel and Richard Williams.
Baldwin: I loved him!
Major: Which one,Winston Dan Vogel or Richard Williams?
Baldwin: I had, Winston Dan Vogel was one of my,he got a dirty deal.
Major: Really? What does that mean?
Baldwin: That means that he didn’t, wasn’t allowed his full potential. And he’s still struggling…
Major: Is he?
Baldwin: …with the same things.
Major: Doesn’t he work in Israel now?
Baldwin: I don’t know where he is. I have an address, but he told me that all the good conductors come from Israel. That’s what he told me.
Major: Well, he and Yoel Levi.
[14]
Baldwin: I don’t know. His father was a physician, and his mother was a musician. And he came from a very, very admirable family. And he’s been many a day and night over here.
Major: Really?
Baldwin: And I hate to see somebody that doesn’t deserve to be treated the way he was.
Major: Was he chased off?
Baldwin: I think, I think so. I won’t, I don’t say so.
Major: But you thought he did a good job?
Baldwin: Did he what?
Major: You thought he did a good job?
Baldwin: Oh yes! I thought he did a good job, but that doesn’t mean you have to think it. If you heard that he was such and such, you have every right to what you think. Musicians are kind of different people.
Major: What about the guy named Richard Williams, the one who was just before Winston Dan Vogel? Did you know Richard Williams?
Baldwin: Oh, sure. He slept in my bedroom upstairs [laughing]. He ran out of money.
Major: What?
Baldwin: He, he didn’t have any place to live anymore, so I had an extra bedroom upstairs.
Major: Is that at the end of his time here?
Baldwin: Yeah. And he had a, he had a very nice wife, I thought. You know everybody has their own opinions. [laughing]
Major: But was he a good conductor?
Baldwin: Was he?
Major: Was he a good conductor?
Baldwin: Not very. I didn’t think.
[15]
Major: And he left after a short time?
Baldwin: Yes. He wasn’t here too long, and he went some place like New York. I don’t know where he went. You can see I wasn’t very nice to him either, but I liked him. He was a human being. He had a nice family. He had children that were nice, and it just didn’t work out. I don’t know what the trouble was. And then Dan Vogel came along, and things went from bad to worse, and the public doesn’t like this.
Major: No. You mean the public doesn’t like tension?
Baldwin: No. They don’t want it.
Major: No.
Baldwin: I hope that the television people will get some new ideas of what’s right and what’s wrong. [laughing] Let the other fellow formulate his own opinion about everybody else. But Richard was Richard.
Major: Mmm-hmm. And how about Russell Stanger?
Baldwin: Well, he’s one of my best friends. He could, he might be calling up here this afternoon. I don’t know.
Major: Well, he’s one of the Library’s friends. We like him.
Baldwin: Oh, wait, well, his personality is lovely…
Major: Yes.
Baldwin: … but there are lots of stories about that, too.
Major: Really?
Baldwin: And I don’t know who’s got the story. I think Russ, we had him to dinner the other, not very long ago and anytime he gets hungry he knows where he can get a meal. [laughing] And, of course, it’s been tough for Russ ever since Millie died.
Major: I’m sure it has.
Baldwin: I don’t think he has the talent that JoAnn has. Maybe he does. Maybe I haven’t seen that side of him. The thing about JoAnn is, there aren’t any bad stories about her and her husband.
[16]
Major: No.
Baldwin: And everybody loves that kind of a person.
Major: That’s right.
Baldwin: So it’s so much to all the sides of accepting your place in music. Now when he wrote those Mexican things, and he was down in Mexico, well, I just thought they were wonderful, but a lot of other people didn’t. So what are, what are we going to do?
Major: Well, fortunately, now we have JoAnn.
Baldwin: Maybe everybody tries too hard, because I didn’t think Russ was that bad.
Major: No.
Baldwin: I imagine reading what you do, you get many, many different ideas about who these people are.
Major: What I have read gives me more questions than answers. I have seen enough that I have many interviews’ worth of questions. I have lots of questions about how things happened, how things evolved, and so on.
Baldwin: Well, the main thing is a person like me – I don’t want to cause anybody to have a poor reputation.
Major: No.
Baldwin: And everybody can’t be perfect. And we don’t have very many villains. [laughing] And so we-- I’d rather give you Ludwig Diehn’s book and let you figure out what you think.
Major: Great. Let me ask another question in another direction. What do you think women, all of the women, over the symphony’s time, what do you think that the women’s unique contributions were?
Baldwin: Well, I think the women do what?
Major: The women’s unique contributions to the symphony were? Women worked for the symphony over its whole history. What do you think that they, their special contributions were?
Baldwin: I don’t think we have to pick them out as hav-- making a special contribution. You know what I mean? I don’t know why we women in this room
[17]
have to be special just because we’re women, when we really and truly maybe aren’t making a special contribution. We might be by what they do. I’d be pretty mad if somebody didn’t realize how tough it is to be what I have been trying to get across, which poorly I’m getting across. Remember this, as I say to everybody I talk to, the bottom line is money. And I really believe it.
Major: And so you have been willing to contribute a great deal of time and effort to the symphony.
Baldwin: I mean you can talk all you want, but the symphony just can’t exist without money.
Major: That’s right.
Baldwin: I don’t know whether you believe it or not or come again. Maybe I can convince you. [laughing]
Major: Oh no. My husband and I are supporters of the symphony. It’s a great pleasure for us to support the symphony, and we have been subscribers ever since we came to town.
Balwin: Well, I think supporting the symphony is kind of like breathing in and breathing out.
Major: Mmm-hmm. I agree.
Baldwin: And there are not enough people breathing in and breathing out.
Major: Especially the breathing out part.
Baldwin: Yes. Now I just gave the symphony twenty, thirty thousand dollars a couple of days ago.
Major: Thank you for all of us who love the symphony.
Baldwin: I do it because I want to. And that’s where we’re falling down.
Major: It is a real pleasure to be able to make gifts like that.
Baldwin: And just to be hearing something just gorgeous.
Major: Yes.
Baldwin: And not, we don’t have to give or take or anything, just be a part of it, and you will support the symphony.
[18]
Major: Mmm-hmm. And is that the way you talk when you fund-raise?
Baldwin: That’s the way I talk.
Major: Mmm-hmm. And you’re very successful.
Baldwin: Oh good! Twenty-five cents. [laughing]
Major: We’re annual contributors.
Baldwin: Do I?
Major: No, we are annual…
Baldwin: Oh.
Major: We are annual contributors.
Baldwin: I’ve given, as my income tax man says, “I marvel at the amount of money that you give to the symphony.”
Major: Mmm… Well, it’s wonderful.
Baldwin: I don’t even wear shoes. [laughing]
Major: Right.
Baldwin: But that’s not the point. The, what we have to do is to realize what we have here, right here, for the ask-- not even for the asking. And that’s why, how you get somebody that realizes what we have.
Major: That’s right. What was the process that resulted in the merger of several orchestras to become the Virginia Symphony?
Baldwin: Oh, that was funny.
Major: Okay.
Baldwin: Well, that’s really something. You know that was Cary McMurran. Do you know Cary?
Major: I know the name. On the Peninsula.
Baldwin: He’s from, he’s from the Peninsula.
Major: Right. Right.
[19]
Baldwin: And somebody decided that we had to get something more than just a toot-ta-root-ta-toot-ta-toot stuff. We had to be somebody. And Cary McMurran was somebody on the Peninsula, and he decided that, if he gave a lot of money, a lot of other people would. And I guess they did, up to a point. But it’s not doing what it should do, even now, so we should ask the people that really love the symphony and want to support the symphony, we should get them out in front. And they never get any credit, I think.
Major: Was there a time recently when they investigated merging the Norfolk and the Richmond Symphonies.
Baldwin: That was a dream. It would never happen.
Major: Really, but it, they went through some kind of a process, didn’t they?
Baldwin: Well, the trouble is, Richmond had used to be, had been in the habit of being Richmond, and never the twain shall meet. That’s what I think.
Major: And they thought it was a step down to merge with…
Baldwin: That’s right, and it wasn’t. We had it, but we can’t stand things like that. So good people like you can pick out the things that are good in a work and also can pick out the things that won’t work. Now the concert we had last weekend. That was so great.
Major: It was. It was a wonderful concert.
Baldwin: Now if we had that all the time, we’d get by.
Major: But did you notice, the audience was skimpy on Saturday night?
Baldwin: I mean, if we had that for every concert, we wouldn’t have any problems, but people don’t consider them that way. They have to have some row-dow-dowdy-dow dow dow dow.
Major: Well, that was a really good concert, and I’m sorry that it was not, that every seat was not filled.
Baldwin: Well, maybe as Russell Stanger says, “It’s got to come with, they have to do it. You have to have for generations the habit. Then you win.” So it’s really and truly the job of several people. You can’t just go out and say, “We’re gonna do it.” But if you’ve always had good music around you, always, I mean, you don’t have any problems. You think about it. So it’s everybody’s job.
[20]
Major: Are there other things that you would like to talk about that I haven’t asked you about?
Baldwin: I’m trying to keep up with you. [laughing] Of course, this is the sort of thing that just bugs me all the time. And we can’t get the community to agree with us. Sometimes we can. I went up to New York when we took the symphony up to Carnegie. Were you here then?
Major: I was. I didn’t go on the trip. I was working then.
Baldwin: Oh, you were?
Major: Mmm-hmm.
Baldwin: I thought that was a great…
Major: It was. It was a tremendous achievement.
Baldwin: And they got the, all the good things came out with it. Now why can’t we keep doing that? What are we missing? All right, tell me. I have thought of a question then.
Major: Okay.
Baldwin: Do you think it’s the kind of the programming that makes it?
Major: Umm, I think that the programming is varied and appealing, and there are a lot of good guest artists. I think the programming is good.
Baldwin: Well, I think it is, too, except for every now and then we have a pops concert that I walk out of.
Major: Oh well, I don’t go to the pops concerts.
Baldwin: Well, I figure I have to, being a member of the board. I have to support it full tilt, and I go to everything.
Major: Good for you!
Baldwin: Well, that’s the way, it is a way.
Major: Have you been on the board continually since-- wow, for fifty years?
Baldwin: I think it’s twenty-seven.
Major: That’s a lot.
[21]
Baldwin: Well, I think it is. I have some clippings that give the date that I went on the board, and I cannot find the clipping.
Major: Well, we may be able to hunt down clippings like that.
Baldwin: I… I pulled. Before you came, I was in the den there, and I have a lot of clippings. Unfortunately, I had a hold of them the wrong way, and the whole kit and caboodle went right straight down. And I don’t even know where they are now. They’re in, they’re all over the floor.
Major: Oh, could one of us help you?
Baldwin: Well, well,
it will wear your knees out.
Major: I see.
Baldwin: If you want to go just at random and see what you can pull out of some of those things that I dropped before you came.
Major: Right.
Baldwin: I’ll go upstairs and get the book.
Major: That would be great because I am out of questions. You’ve answered all the questions that I have.
END OF INTERVIEW
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