Major: This is Jean Major. I’m talking today with Barbara Chapman, principal harpist with the Virginia Symphony; today is August 7, 2007. Barbara, tell me how long you’ve been a member of the symphony.
Chapman: This will be my twentieth season. I joined the Virginia Symphony in October of 1988. I did not begin the season in September of 1988 because that was the year of the strike. So, I postponed my move, but my first services as a Virginia Symphony musician were walking the picket line.
Major: Well, and you moved here to become a member of the symphony.
Chapman: That is correct.
Major: What was your professional experience before the symphony?
Chapman: I had been a freelance musician in New York City . I had gone there to study and to freelance, and one of my…one of my opportunities as a freelancer in New York City was receiving a call from the Virginia Opera to come down and be the Symphony—the Opera’s principal harpist for a couple of seasons, and that’s when I first was introduced to the Virginia Symphony. And . . . then auditioned for the symphony job and moved in ’88, but I had an understanding of the Virginia Orchestra—the Virginia Symphony before I came here because of my work with the Opera.
Major: At that time was the orchestra for the opera not the same as the Virginia Symphony?
Chapman: That is correct. It was two separate contracts…which was rather interesting because you could hold one position but not the other, which was detrimental to the orchestra, and we could probably talk about that later because it comes up in some of your later questions, but for me I was very eager to get the symphony job because I would hold both contracts, and I would be—when I did my audition, I was really nervous about it, fearing that I would not get the symphony job but continue to maintain the Virginia Opera job which wasn’t enough to make a living. So, musicians at that time did struggle with patching together a lot of different jobs to make one job.
Major: What is a career with the Virginia Symphony like?
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Chapman: Well, it’s actually changed significantly in my 20 years. Like I said, when I started here I held two contracts, one for the Virginia Symphony and one for the Virginia Opera and . . . both of my positions were rather small actually, the principal harp position in the Virginia Symphony was very small. I was guaranteed 55 services, and so I only really did, early on, several of the big classics programs and maybe the pop series, but I wasn’t even involved in what was the beginnings of our educational outreach at the very beginning. Then they started to utilize the principal harp, and then I became involved in all of the services that the symphony did—the education, the pops, and the classics.
Major: Are those the three facets of the Symphony today?
Chapman: Yes, I think so. We also do an education, educational outreach, which is stretched and kind of incorporates community outreach as well, so there’s still the educational component of it, and that is reaching the public schools—children with performances, full Virginia Symphony performances, but now we also have a community engagement project which involves musicians going as individuals or duets or trios into the public schools and reaching the students one-on-one. That community engagement project also which is only about three years--began probably in 2004, the community engagement project also reaches out to community-type chamber music programs, similar to partnering with the Norfolk Arts Within Reach series, which takes chamber music into underserved populations. So that’s not only educational; that’s really a stretch of community engagement. Classical series also has significantly increased in 20 years. When I first had the job, we had probably six or seven of what we called master works programs, big classical programs. Now we have probably twice that, serving every community in Hampton Roads, with a full series now in Newport News , whereas when I began 20 years ago, we had only the full series in Norfolk with a series of runout programs. So, we really do serve the community. I think of any change that has happened in the 20 years I’ve been with the orchestra is the, the significant reach to all the communities of Hampton Roads. Every community has its own series.
Major: In addition to the symphony, what other work do you do?
Chapman: I actually don’t do nearly as much work as my other colleagues. [Laughs] I do a little bit of freelancing—chamber music of my own choosing and church work and things like that, and I have a very small studio for private students.
Major: And you make a certain number of recordings.
Chapman: Yes, Debra Cross, principal flutist in the orchestra, and I have made three recordings together and . . . also made a recording of some of the music by
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Adolphus Hailstork, chamber music, with some other colleagues from the symphony.
Major: What have been some of the high points of your time with the symphony?
Chapman: Well, I think probably everybody that you interview will answer this the same way, and that is Carnegie Hall. Carnegie Hall was really a high point artistically, but it was also, I think, a turning point for the orchestra. JoAnn had brought us to a new level artistically, and at that time we had an executive director, a board chair, and JoAnn that had an absolutely dynamic chemistry, and all stars aligned over the Virginia Symphony at Carnegie Hall, and everything was in place for that event, and I think that what happened there, not only was it a thrilling program, but it brought to this community here an awareness of that significant growth and artistic changes of the Virginia Symphony.
Major: Are there other memorable moments other than high points?
Chapman: For me, I think—because I—JoAnn—this is JoAnn’s, I believe, 17th season, so basically all of my time has been with JoAnn Falletta, and the one thing that she—two things actually that she is known for, and one of them is premiering new music and bringing new American music to the forefront, and even though that is often challenged by an audience not wanting to receive that, I think that it’s been a very significant . . . significant stride for the orchestra to really present itself in this way. The other thing I think she’s done which for me has been a really high point is her Mahler cycle. She interprets Mahler so amazingly beautiful and, for me, I had never actually played Mahler before, and annually we would do another Mahler symphony, and now we’re on our second cycle with her. Those symphonies have really stretched the orchestra artistically and musically, and they—each of them has just been absolutely thrilling for me. I think that the Mahler Second Symphony, the first time we did it with JoAnn, we’ve done it twice now, but the first time we did it with JoAnn, our Virginia Symphony Chorus was new, and that was a moment for them to really . . .
Major: New?
Chapman: Well, newly established. I can’t remember now when exactly the Virginia Symphony Chorus was established by Don McCullough, but when we did the Mahler Second Symphony, they had only been established for a couple three years, I believe. So that was just a really exciting time. The other—the other concerts that I have really—that I probably will not ever forget are the concerts that we’ve done with Gil Shaham, he’s come just recently a couple three years ago and did Tchaikovsky. Interestingly enough, I don’t even play the Tchaikovsky Concerto in D but just--the orchestra is always really—he’s just such a musician’s musician, and he’s a real inspiring person. There is one concert I don’t think I will ever, ever forget because it was just so funny. Can I tell a funny story?
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Major: Absolutely. [Laughter]
Chapman: This was . . . oh gosh, here I am showing my age; I can’t remember his name—the Irish flutist . . .
Major: Yea, James Galway.
Chapman: James Galway. I said I’m never going to forget it, and I can’t remember his name. James Galway, and I don’t even recall, you know, at all what year this was; it’s got to be six or eight—nine years ago, and he came when he was doing two pieces for the orchestra. He’s just such a funny, quirky, little man and moves things along really fast, hates to rehearse and just was always like moving things along quickly. He talks quickly, and he moves quickly, and his eyes skirt around quickly, and he was doing a piece, and I don’t even recall what the first piece was, but it was a classically oriented piece that had strings and a couple of winds on stage. I think there was an oboist, and Debbie was probably playing flute, but it was basically the strings section for this classically oriented piece. The second piece he did was themes of Bizet’s Carmen, and it was his own transcription of the Sarasate thing for violin, which had the whole orchestra—the percussion section and the brass section, the harp and the rest of wind section and everything. While we’re all—the back half of the orchestra is literally backstage for this classical piece, and we’re waiting in the wings and behind these hidden doors of the back of Chrysler Hall, and the first piece finishes, this classical piece finishes, and the applause dies down, and the minute the applause dies down, JoAnn starts conducting this Sarasate piece. Half of the orchestra wasn’t even on stage, and we exploded out of these invisible doors. [Laughter] We just--we were pushing each other. I remember I just gave John Lindberg a push, and I said, “Get out there John; get out there,” and I just flew, we just--we just like exploded out of these invisible doors, and we were all just laughing so hard, and at the end of the piece, you know, we finished this whole big long theme and variations and JoAnn goes, “I’m so sorry, I’m so sorry.” ‘Cause I mean, we didn’t get out there until, you know, measure 15 or something [Laughter] ________ sitting down, trombone players had to pick up their trombones. It was really quite funny. That’s one I probably will never forget. [Laughter]
Major: Let me go back and ask a question about, about any of the Mahlers--the Mahler Second or whatever. How was the experience different in Chrysler and in Ferguson ?
Chapman: Yea, Ferguson Center actually has been a real, real--I don’t want to say an achievement for the symphony, because we didn’t achieve it, but it’s been a really positive thing. The symphony sounds different at Ferguson . The symphony sounds different on stage, so we listen differently; we hear things we’ve never heard before, and when we first started playing at Ferguson Center, we really realized that this was an opportunity for us to improve the way we play
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because we can hear better. We could hear what’s going on, and I know from sitting on both sides—on the stage and also in the audience, that music really does come alive more there, and it has a greater power. Now that’s not to say that there haven’t been some amazingly powerful performances at Chrysler Hall, but the sound at Ferguson does outshine, does outshine, and it brings you know the more—it’s really interesting, the more you can hear on stage, the more you can do.
Major: That is true.
Chapman: You know, you really can--that is live music. It is responding to what you hear. If you can’t hear anything . . . what is an interesting challenge to us now is that we double currently in this particular season, last season—2006 and also this season is that we have started to have the Complete Master Works Series, we call it Classics now, they keep changing the name of the series. We have the Classic series in both places and just how each, each performance has its own energy because of where we are, and it’s, it’s inspiring but it’s also a little disorienting.
Major: The first conductor here that you worked with was Winston Dan Vogel, right?
Chapman: That is correct.
Major: He had a very short tenure here; do you know why that was?
Chapman: Yes, I think that Winston was—I don’t know why he was hired, but I think that his purpose in the orchestra, in retrospect, was to . . . I don’t even know how to say this quite diplomatically, so maybe I’ll just say it--to clean house. And what happened, from my understanding, I came here in 1988, my understanding that in ’85 the contract took significant—move forward in moving toward salary, away from per-service and moving toward a salaried orchestra, and in 1988 we had a contract strike, and because we were continuing—the musicians were continuing to push the orchestra to salaried reputation. And it was a major period of growing pains for the orchestra, financially and artistically, and when you have an orchestra in—I don’t know what the orchestra sounded like in 1975, but I can only assume that it was all per-service, that not everybody who played in the orchestra in 1975 had the talent, motivation, or inclination to work in an orchestra like ours now, and so what Winston did, I believe, is that he found there was a great deal of turnover in the orchestra for a variety of reasons, one of them many people lost their jobs because of him and were rehired-- not rehired, excuse me, lost their jobs and positions were open . . . I mean my predecessor, I don’t know what her particular situation was, but I do know that there were people in the orchestra whose lives, work lives, were made absolutely miserable and chose to leave. So he was a very, very difficult person, and there was a lot of change whether he fired them or they chose to leave. There was a lot of change and—so I think that when it’s someone like that, they don’t last long because first of all
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no one likes them, you know, I mean that kind of person is just horrible to have around, I mean that is such a horrible—I heard stories about how terrified people were to go to rehearsal, let alone performance. I mean they would be—people would be physically ill from stress to go to rehearsal because there was this sense, like who are we as an orchestra and where are we going, and it was almost—I don’t think he was assigned the task, but he did the task of cleaning house.
Major: What do you think the symphony’s accomplishments were during his period or what were his accomplishments?
Chapman: Oh, that is hard for me to say because I really only worked with him for one year, and then I’m trying to remember exactly, maybe two seasons, and then we had a full season of auditions, and then we hired JoAnn. I don’t know, I don’t have a distaste for him the way so many of my colleagues do, but . . . I’m not sure what he accomplished. I can’t answer the question.
Major: How important have the various executive directors been in your ability to be an effective orchestra?
Chapman: The executive director—we’ve had quite a few actually in 20 years, some of them very short term. The executive directors that have really . . . this is hard to say . . . I think that going back to our time at Carnegie Hall is that Dan Hart and our board chair at the time, Betty Edwards, and JoAnn Falletta had this dynamite relationship. They just had a chemistry that was unstoppable at that time, and he led the orchestra, I think, to a new level. He was . . . came out of—came into the orchestra and found a lot of skeletons in the closet and financial concerns, and I think Dan was the first executive director to get some members in the community who had been very disillusioned with the way the Virginia Symphony was run financially and the way it was—the board led and that Dan rebuilt community trust. You may have a different perspective on that, but I think that the community pulled behind the orchestra and then trusted their financial gifts and financial support of the symphony, and that started with Dan.
Major: Is part of the matter of trust had to do with gifts being used in a different way than in the terms of their gift?
Chapman: Right, right I do think there was a history of gifts given that were misused, but Dan Hart, I think, was the executive director that came forward with—that really worked hard to build--rebuild some trust.
Major: In general, are executive directors important to the orchestra?
Chapman: Yes, because they, they are the leadership in so many things. They are the leadership in how the vision of the orchestra is marketed. They are leadership in the fundraising. I mean that’s the board’s responsibility; it’s their
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vision. If you have an executive director that has a very limited vision of the–of the Virginia Symphony, you’re only going to fundraise for that limited vision. Their vision of growth and expansion throughout the community is what inspires the rest of the staff, and I also think from a—you know, I carry a big harp around so I’m really, you know, like this (crosses fingers) with my production staff, like this with the guys that carry my harp around but there is, there is a vision from the executive director that trickles down as to how the musicians are to be treated and how they’re to be assisted in walking onstage and doing the best they can.
Major: What about other staff members? Are there other staff roles that are important to the orchestra’s effectiveness?
Chapman: You know, the unsung heroes are these guys backstage—the production crew and the personnel manager—I mean, you can always talk about the head of the development department or the marketing and those things are pretty visible or artistic director, but I think it’s the guys backstage. And our personnel manager--I got to tell you, the way the orchestra has changed in 20 years, and what we do, going out and serving every pocket of this community, and our current personnel manager is just a totally unsung hero. I mean, she is extraordinarily organized; makes sure that we all get where we’re going at the right time with the right clothes on, with the right music—no, I’m serious. I mean she is just amazing, and she actually—she is far and away the best personnel manager we’ve ever had, and she is definitely--vastly improved the morale of the players by their ability to show up and do their jobs because we know what to expect. We’re not struggling; I can’t tell how many times we got bad directions; wrong—you know, not showing up to the right place because we got a map--we were given a map that went to the wrong place. I mean, the production staff right now is just doing great; our personnel manager is great. Nobody else in these interviews will compliment the backstage people like that. [Laughter]
Major: I know that the musicians were put on salary in 1985, and so for the first time this was a full time salaried orchestra, and I know that you were not here at that time. Have you made observations that suggest how did it happen finally after so many years when it was a per-service orchestra?
Chapman: I think, I think it was a labor stride. I think the musicians who were here were very concerned about making the best music they possibly could, and they wanted to be compensated for it, and they wanted their working conditions to be worthy, and they, you know, people were here, and they were doing good work, and they were trying to buy homes and raise families. I think it was a labor stride.
Major: So how did that affect the symphony’s ability to recruit nationally?
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Chapman: I think the contract of 1985, if that is what you say when we first got our salary. The contract of 1985 was a stepping stone contract to a more significant contract in this regard, and that was the contract, I believe, of 1991 or ‘92. It was funny because we negotiated so many contracts—we’ve negotiated so many contracts. We just, finally, we have this four-year contract now. For years we had a one-year contract or a two-year contract with a one-year extension or plain talk. We had all of this because we going through such growing pains, no one wanted to make a commitment to four years because they had no idea what was going to happen. If the symphony board members were going to raise money—anyway, we had all these one-year contracts, but the contract from ’85 became the stepping stone to this contract of either ’91 or ’92, and that was when the Virginia Symphony contracts directly with the Virginia Opera so that there were no longer two separate contracts.
Major: And that only happened in 1991 or ‘92?
Chapman: Yes, it did not happen earlier than that, yep, yep. So we were all having these two contracts, and then they, they, they struck the deal—now I don’t have a deal with the Virginia Opera anymore. I have a deal with the Virginia Symphony which includes the Virginia Opera services, so that is part of my job with the Virginia Symphony to play the Virginia Opera, and what that did in that contract was to bump everybody’s salaries, and salary offerings nationwide when you’re advertising for a job, it bumped them between three and four thousand dollars, which took them—which doesn’t sound like a lot of money but which took the salaries to a level that could start to begin to attract players that would be willing to appear. The first contracts in 1985 and ’86, ’87, ’88, those contracts were not that enticing, but it’s when you partnered it with the Virginia Opera that it became.
Major: Any other labor situations that you regard as significant?
Chapman: No, I don’t think so. I think that this last particular contract that we did was significant in that it was the first contract we ever signed that we signed before we went to work that particular season. We would play and talk, and we would continue to negotiate a contract and then be paid retroactively in the new contract later in the season, but I think this last contract we signed a year ago was one we signed before we went to work in August. And I think that that is significant in that clearly the management and the union representing the symphony musicians were communicating and on the same page, finally.
Major: I understand that there was a time when the symphony and Norfolk—the music department at Norfolk State, worked together in some way to recruit some musicians who could have work both at the University and with the symphony. Can you tell me anything about how that arrangement evolved—how it started, how it evolved, anything?
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Chapman: You know, I don’t know anything about that, and when I read your little preview question here, I was quite surprised, and then I got to thinking that it was probably people like Steve Carlson. I wonder if John Lindberg was part of that. I think he came as a military person, though. He was in the area with the Armed Forces School of Music when he was hired to the symphony. So there were a few, and Steve could definitely answer that question. I was not aware of that relationship.
Major: Okay. This is before your time, so you may or may not have much sense about the merger of several local ensembles in 1979. There was the Peninsula Orchestra, the Virginia Beach Pops, and the Norfolk Symphony. Do you have a sense of what opportunities that presented or what the obstacles were?
Chapman: I’m sure the obstacles were is that they were all headed by different artistic directors and different managements, so getting them to merge vision, I’m sure, was pretty challenging. I don’t know if the musicians were the same players. I don’t know the answer to that question. Do you know that?
Major: I don’t know, and nobody has even touched on that.
Chapman: I wonder, because if they’re the same musicians, and then it’s only a struggle between management and artistic direction...then it seems like that’s kind of odd, but if it was all three different—if it was, if it was different musicians playing in each of the three groups, then it would be even greater challenge to merge those.
Major: It would. [Laughter] Did you ever work with the Youth Orchestra?
Chapman: I did not. Has there been a relationship with the Virginia Symphony and the—are you talking about Bay Youth Orchestra because there was a relationship with Bay Youth Orchestra.
Major: No.
Chapman: The symphony had its own youth orchestra, correct.
Major: Yes it did.
Chapman: No, because for a very short time, the Bay Youth Orchestra was—had a relationship with the symphony, too. It was a very short time.
Major: What about the Community Music School ?
Chapman: No.
Major: Have you had significant contact with the symphony board over time?
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Chapman: Yes, I have. Following . . . I arrived here in ’88 and like I mentioned, that was the year of the labor strike, and we resolved the strike, signed a contract, and it was determined shortly thereafter that what was profoundly needed was a level of communication between the board and the musicians... that there was—because we were in these just—wrapped up in these growing pains of expanding and the board struggling to raise money and fighting the community’s concerns that some money that had been given had been given inappropriately and had been used inappropriately. There was just so much that the orchestra was struggling with at that time, plus we did not have JoAnn Falletta, so we were in a transitional musical director as well. The board decided that, for the first time in its history, that they would invite musicians to be members of the board of directors, and I was one of the first three musicians to be a musician representative on the board. And that, I believe, was in 1989, and I served on the board of directors as a musician representative for six or seven years, and it was really interesting. We were full voting members of the board of directors, which I might add we do not have now here in 2007. We do not have musicians as voting members, but for a time we were full voting members of the board of directors, and we were invited, I think, for communication . . . but they welcomed us on as voting members, and it was—it was interesting. I think they wanted us to see the blood, sweat and tears of their hard work, and we wanted them to see and hear what we were doing in the trenches, and I think it was part of why we’re still alive. It was a very interesting experience to be on the board, and actually for a couple of years too I was a member of the executive committee, so I was on the inner circle of--obviously excused for executive sessions sometimes when they were negotiating contracts, but interesting to see how the board has evolved over the years.
Major: And you’re not now on the board?
Chapman: No, we were invited—we were dis-invited from being on the board several years ago as musician representatives, and then we were invited again when Carla Johnson came on as executive director. Yet, we never really had an involvement. I was invited back, and actually I was—Debbie Cross and I were two that were invited. Voted on by our colleagues to be the representatives to serve the board and never really kind of got in the loop, so.
Major: Over time have you had any contact to speak of with the symphony league?
Chapman: I have done a variety of things with and for the league. They have always done community educational-type things of concert previews, and I have done some of those. I’ve carted my harp over there and done some little, sort of, lecture demos for them—relationships. I for many years, I would say probably seven or eight years, I was the—wrote the musician column for the Virginia Symphony League Newsletter, which was communicating basically what the
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musicians do on a daily basis and encouraging…My involvement with the league has always been very pleasant.
Major: What do you think that the league’s contributions have been?
Chapman: I think that they have been fine fundraisers. I think that, 20 years ago, their fundraising has perhaps—was perhaps a little more avid than it is now, and maybe it’s because the rest of the orchestra’s kind of gotten it together. Development and fundraising and ticket sales and everything have . . . it’s done, you know, in house. Years ago—20 years ago that the fundraising that they did seemed like a bigger part of the pie than it is now, but I think that’s not because the league is shabby; it’s because the symphony has grown so big. I think that the league is great for inviting friends and sharing tickets and bringing people in on a friendly basis, and I also think that the thing that the league does that nobody remembers is that they just give hours and hours of volunteer support. I mean, they’ll come at the last minute and answer phones in the office. Now the office is so staffed, but for so many years they were the ones stuffing the envelopes and doing mailings and, you know, picking up the slack. They still, you know, do—bring cookies at intermission for every concert we do. I mean, you know the volunteer hours are not even seen.
Major: You’re right; as an audience member for fifteen years, I had never known that until this project started.
Chapman: Yea, yea.
Major: How strong has the symphony been in the last ten years, do you think?
Chapman: I think that the symphony has actually grown in strength; I think that we had a big surge artistically, moving into sort of having JoAnn on board and moving into the first ten years of JoAnn. I think that the symphony artistically needs a new project, a new Carnegie Hall, if you will, a new sort of exciting something. I don’t know what it is, but I think that we’re ready for another big deal like that . . . I think management-wise, I think it’s only improved, starting with about Dan Hart. The board seems so much stronger than they were 15 years ago. I think the community respect . . . I think that they have worked through—the board has worked to bring new members in, but they’ve also worked very hard to soften the financial concerns. I think they’ve worked very hard to, when money is given, it’s used for what it’s given. I think they’ve really cleaned up, and I think there’s strength in all of that.
Major: How did the Virginia Symphony become a nationally recognized symphony?
Chapman: I can probably credit two-- three things to that. One of them is JoAnn because she is so nationally recognized herself, so we move on the map because she moves on the map. I think Carnegie Hall was a stride for us. It gave
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us some national recognition, and it also gave this community an idea that we could actually function on a national level and do well, and then I think the other thing too in recognition is being welcomed into the ICSOM (International Conference of Symphony and Opera Musicians) which is the International Symphony Orchestra Musicians’. . . I can’t even remember what it stands for, but it is the top tier of symphony musicians are in this—symphonies across the nation are in this top tier, and that was—we chose as musicians to petition for acceptance into ICSOM and . . .
Major: So the impetus for that came from the musicians, right?
Chapman: Yes, I believe so. I believe it came from, specifically from John Lindberg.
Major: How have the musicians been asked in the last few years to assist in either friend-making or fundraising?
Chapman: About four or five years ago, maybe even longer than that, they decided that it would really be a good idea if the audience knew the players. That somehow there would be ownership from an audience member if they became friendly with the players, and I think that they really decided to—that if we could build relationships with players to audience members, then people would have—they would want to come see their friends play. They knew these people on stage; it wasn’t just a bunch of people dressed in black shrouds, you know; they were their friends, they’d met them, and so they started this thing called Backstage Bash. Jennifer Barbie in the development department, I think, was organizing that, and the league was involved in that as well, and we would, there would be invitations, and you would have--started out with these little backstage parties with musicians, and they were so successful. I’m surprised they don’t do that now, but I guess they sort of expanded on that, and now musicians are asked to host chamber music parties in their homes or to play chamber music parties in donors’ homes or board members’ homes, to circulate, and I think that a human connection, musician to donor, musician to ticket buyer, has really sparked a commitment, I think, to those that give money and spend money coming to the orchestra, plus the musicians love it.
Major: Really.
Chapman: We love it. We just love it. I mean, there are a few people who don’t have any interest in it whatsoever, but it is just very fun to get to know donors and ticket buyers and audience members. They did formalize this process in a way with the CEP, which stands for Community Engagement Project, and part, part of the Community Engagement Project is educational outreach, but part of it is touching the, you know, donors, hands on with donors, and we get credit for it. It’s part of our salary, and we get a little service credit for it, so it’s a win-win.
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Major: I should say so. Are there things that you thought I would ask or that you hoped that would come up that I haven’t ask about?
Chapman: No, I don’t think so.
Major: No unfinished business?
Chapman: No.
Major: Well, thank you very much; this has been very interesting, very helpful. Thank you.
Chapman: You’re welcome; thank you.
END OF INTERVIEW
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