Major: It’s July 30, 2008. I’m Jean Major. I’m talking with Dan Hart about the recent history of the Virginia Symphony. Dan, when were you a member of the staff of the symphony?
Hart: I, I came to the Virginia Symphony in the summer of 1994, and I stayed through the summer of 1998. So it was four seasons.
Major: Uh hum. What other arts management positions have you had?
Hart: Well, my career path up till then was that I was a, a fellow with the American Symphony Orchestra League. And I started to get my training for orchestra management there. I worked for Catholic University of America as an assistant to the Dean. I worked at the Kansas City Symphony as assistant manager, Baton Rouge Symphony and Colorado Springs Symphony as Executive Director just before Virginia Symphony. Since then I have gone on to Columbus and now Buffalo Philharmonic. But I remember, actually I don’t, you know when I was young in the field, this, you know, I remember hearing about JoAnn Falletta; actually when I was an intern with the Milwaukee Symphony--this would have been 1987--JoAnn was still the Associate Conductor there. So, I didn’t really know her because she was a big conductor, and I was a lowly intern. But, I did know her name and certainly had a great impression of her. And I remember in Colorado Springs, prob-ably it was 1991 or two; I distinctly remember seeing the press release that came out when JoAnn was appointed Music Director of the Virginia Symphony. Michael Tiknis, I think, was the Executive Director there, and he was a master of PR; if anything else, that guy, he, you know, press releases, he would get the news out, and so I’d really, I remember seeing that, and then two years later they called me to, you know, come out and interview for the position. And so it was a, you know, it was a great opportunity for me, to come out there in 94.
Major: When we moved to Denver in 1982, the conductor of the Denver Chamber Orchestra was JoAnn Falletta. So I, it was a very pleasant surprise when I got to Norfolk and discovered she was there.
Hart: There she was.
Major: Yeah. What are some of the high points of your career with the Virginia Symphony?
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Hart: Well, I do think that the ultimate thing was the Carnegie Hall trip in 1997. In the, the early days, in 1994 when I got there, were quite tough. You know, it was, there was, it seemed like a, a skeleton was falling out of the closet every time I went into work [laughter], and it was a pretty big closet. But you know, I really felt like there was, you know, a lot of good, very strong board members there and people who cared, and we were going to get through the hard times. It was mostly cash flow difficulties. It wasn’t really anything major, but--. I remember being called to a bank session where the bankers thought we were going to default on a loan, and I knew nothing about it, but there it was, you know, trying to deal with it. But you know, working with JoAnn, I think, is just, you know--the vision that she has for an orchestra makes it very easy to get through tough times, you know. You know, you’re really not even thinking about it as you are going through it. Yeah, this is a hard business, it’s tough, but when you’ve got a partner like JoAnn or someone leading, you know, an institutional leader like that, you know, you just keep plugging away and moving forward. And you know, I am trying to think of some of the other cool things that we did while we were there. Certainly towards the end, I was very much looking forward to this whole Christopher Newport thing--you know that was on the books.
Major: You mean the hall?
Hart: The hall at Christopher Newport. I thought at the time that it was presented-- you know, it took another four or five years from the original time where they thought it was, but I was super-excited about that possibility because I thought a hall on, on the Peninsula could be, really open the doors to, you know a serious series up there. And so I was very excited about that. I just, I wish it would have coincided when I was there. [laughter] But it just didn’t happen. The Virginia Beach Amphitheater was a big deal when that opened, and I mean, I remember doing programs out there for the summer and trying to do a summer series there; that was quite exciting. Working on--again it happened after I left-- but you know we laid the ground work for the Kennedy Center performance as a follow-up to Carnegie Hall. Then I, you know, I, I just--so many concerts have come and gone since then; I can’t remember anything in, in real particular detail, but, you know, JoAnn’s programming--it was always, you know, it was always a great season. Every season was, you know, something new and exciting and interesting. I think one of the other big things that was happening was the recordings that we were doing were there, in a particularly--I can’t even remember the name, this, this recording that we did that got circulated to like 75,000 people through a magazine that was a short-lived magazine from Mark Mobley, Mark Mobley, the paper. So there was, you know, there was some really interesting projects, like that.
Major: Can you tell me something more about what went into bringing about the Carnegie Hall appearance?
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Hart: Well, I mean, I think that it’s, you know, the, the fundraising part of it and trying to get the community effort was the big, big part of it. I mean, I think we felt like Carnegie Hall could be the kind of thing that is, you know, it, it just elevates the excitement and the, the ownership of the orchestra in so many ways. People going there, people, the orchestra achieving success at the most venerable hall in, you know the world. And so, you know, you know what I lead, what I remember leading up to it is basically just trying to get as many people involved in the process as possible and in particular the politicians. I don’t know if-- I remember the program booklet had-- you know, in the Hampton Roads there are just so many different [laughter] cities--and trying to get the buy-in from, from the business community and the, and the governmental officials to make sure that they could utilize this as something that would highlight Hampton Roads and that it would be, you know, something that we would all be proud of and use as a marketing tool for the region as well. So that, you know, that was a big, big part of it, just the funding of it and trying to get people focused on why it was important and what, what would be the outcomes of it. You know, easier said than done.
Major: What was the scope of responsibilities of the executive during the time that you were in Norfolk?
Hart: Well, I mean, you know, the, the Virginia Symphony was, you know, a mature organization and had a fully professional staff, so, you know, my responsibilities were, you know, managing the staff, you know, interfacing with the board and volunteers, you know, handling the negotiations. I mean it’s really A to Z.
Major: The negotiations?
Hart: For contract negotiations with the musicians and, you know, helping programming with JoAnn. She’s very, very much a person who is inclusive in her ideas about how to put together a season. So I mean, you know, for a person like me to have, you know, your hands in many pots like that is just the greatest possible thing in the world. [laughter] And especially the artistic side again, that makes it all kind of worthwhile. But I would say that my job there--because we had the-- you know, we started the campaign--New Dimensions, I think we called it, was a-- you know that was a big--fundraising was a big part of my job absolutely.
Major: How were the responsibilities divided between you and the other symphony staff, the board of directors, and the symphony league?
Hart: Well, you know, the board and the symphony league were basically, you know cheerleaders and more of the fundraising side. You know, the staff has its functional departments just like any orchestra: finance, marketing, development, education, so, you know--again it’s no different than any other orchestra, just,
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you know, the budget sizes are all--and the number of staff members--are the only things that really change. But, you know the board more or less, you know, getting the strategy and setting policies and kind of thinking on the bigger picture, whereas the staff is really implementing everything on a day-to-day basis.
Major: Other people have told me that, that typically there were a handful of board members who were very involved and, and others had this more, more peripheral roles. Those half dozen or so board members who were really involved, were they part of, of major decisions or major problem-solving?
Hart: Oh, I think so; I mean, you know, if you, you can go to somebody like Minette Cooper who was, you know, very heavily involved in education. I mean, you know, she was, she would get down in the weeds for sure, and, you know, she was very involved. You know the executive committee; you know I think of people like Asa Shields, Les Friedman, Charlie Armfield was actually the chairman that hired me. Win Short, but, you know, the greatest, I think, probably the greatest chair I ever had was Betty Edwards in my entire career, and you know she was the one who was the chair during the Carnegie Hall trip. She was--I think she had two years, two of my four years, I think, was Charlie and Betty and then Win Short came in like the final year that I was there. So Betty was there maybe two years. But yeah, they were very much involved in the decisions that we had to make about the budget and negotiations and quite involved.
Major: How has the job of executive evolved during your career?
Hart: Well, I think that it’s probably the, the-- as orchestras have become, you know, again matured as organizations in their communities and become larger and larger budgets, you know, the job has become…just, just it’s-- the whole field has been professionalized, you know. It may be in, it maybe, but this is not necessarily changed in my time. It was probably before 1970s where things were probably run on a more casual basis, maybe a lot of more volunteer involvements selling tickets and, you know, doing all the kind of cheerleading stuff. They’re staffs that were not quite as full as they are now, so, you know, I think really from the 70s on, the entire field has changed because, after the National Endowment for the Arts, you know, started to fund things, you know, the arts really started to grow in America, and this led to the professionalization of staffs, and so it was no longer that the volunteer boards could actually do the functions. There’s just too much stuff. The seasons got too big, so really, you know, it’s pretty much been that same, same way the whole time, and I would say that I think that now it’s maybe even changing where in organizations like this, the executive role is... well, it’s, it’s, you know,…. it’s almost up there right with the board functions. I mean, you’re really the point person. There’s, there’s no one else to, to do the things that need to be done. You can count on volunteers. You have to count on volunteers, but in the end there is no one you can just fall back and say, “Oh, that’s the board’s duty, or that’s the board’s job,” because you have to treat it like your own company, you know. You’re, you’re
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the person who’s unlocking the door every morning and locking it at night [laughter]. No matter how big a staff you’ve got, you still have to be like the ultimate responsible person, so. I, I think that, that may be one thing that’s in my career that’s evolved. It’s like, you know, I keep thinking of, it’s just like, it’s just like running your own business. It has to be, so…
Major: Did the Virginia Symphony enjoy financial stability during your time?
Hart: Well, yeah, as I said before, it was pretty shaky at the beginning. It never got to be, you know, I think totally stable, but we were certainly working for it. I really was, at that time I was just so proud of the work that we had accomplished, everybody really, not just me, but JoAnn, everybody. We had a, a good group of volunteers, we, that had been working and a good group of donors that had started to give like major dollars: Barbara Stephens, Helen Gifford, Eleanor Marshall. You know, these were our great friends who started to give six figure gifts all of a sudden. And, you know, help contribute to this campaign, I think it was like three million dollars to kind of stabilize the, the VSO, and, you know, we got a good ways towards that so--so that was, that was a pretty exciting time.
Major: Are there characteristics that distinguish the Virginia Symphony board from other symphony boards you have worked with?
Hart: Not really.
Major: Nope, all the same, huh?
Hart: I think so. You know, like, like we were talking, there tends to be group of very dedicated people, maybe the exec, maybe they’re on the executive committee or they’re committee chairs, you know people that… are more involved on a day to day basis. Then you’ve got some people who you never quite know how they got on the board [laughter] or what they’re doing there. Or, you know, but it really is not the same. I really felt that the VSO board was a very interesting group of people and very dedicated to the VSO, and I had a good time. You know, everybody has personalities; you have egos. You’ve got everything to deal with, but, but in the end, I thought it was a pretty effective board at that time.
Major: Can you characterize the JoAnn Falletta period with the orchestra?
Hart: Well, you know, I’m, you know, fortunate enough to have now a very, very long association with JoAnn. I have been here four years, working with her four years, and certainly watching and, you know, talking to her weekly in the six years in between, cause we are good friends too, but, you know, I think, I don’t know how to characterize it, but, you know, certainly that, that the, the constant striving for excellence. You know, JoAnn is just never going to accept mediocre anything. And, you know, I think that, you know, her tenure is marked by the
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constant advancement of the art form with the musicians that she’s--that developing her relationship with the musicians so that they really function as one. And also that JoAnn, unlike most any other conductor I have ever seen or worked with, has the ability to relate to the community, just as she will to anybody, you know, to the orchestra or any friend that she has. Her, her tenures, I think, will be remembered as very distinct and different from other conductors, no matter where she is because she has a unique ability to connect with people and to, you know, make them feel like part of a family, no matter what their association with the BPO is. It’s a very unique and special thing.
Major: What have been the strengths of her programming in Norfolk?
Hart: Well, again, I think it was really building exciting programs, programs that would challenge audiences but not too much, you know. I think that her, her, her, her strength is really kind of seeing all sides of the coin; what is good for the orchestra what is good for the audience what is good for, for me. How do I balance out all of my other things that I am doing during the year and make, still make it a, a special product. So, I, I just think that, you know, I can’t think of any one thing but it’s just her philosophy about how to put together a program and really kind of balance all the different needs of the constituencies that are part of the orchestra.
Major: For a long time the expectation of local community leadership in Norfolk was that the symphony conductor would settle locally and that the VSO would be his primary professional association. Do you have a feel for the perspectives that fostered that expectation?
Hart: I don’t think so. I mean, I think, I think that all; every community wants to call their conductor their own. So I can certainly see where that would come from and, and there are certain times, I mean there’s probably, you know, certain times where they feel like one conductor is not present enough or doesn’t have the personality to connect with the community enough, and so the, the reaction is to say, “OK, well, the next time, we’ve got to get someone who’s going to be, you know, here all the time.” But I, I don’t know where it specifically came from in JoAnn’s case.
Major: It, it was way before JoAnn. That was a major issue with Edgar Schenkman and...
Hart: Schenkman
Major: … you know that was 1950s and 60s and always had been, up until her time. So, do you have any idea what changed to enable them to recruit JoAnn Falletta, with that, with a history of that thinking?
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Hart: No, I don’t know that’s... I really, I couldn’t say but, you know, I think once you get, you know--certainly she’s had a, a strong presence there. It’s not like she has not been a part of the community. She’s-- but I think it’s probably much better for a community having a conductor who’s on the rise and who is engaged elsewhere. It just makes their work wherever they are even more meaningful. You know, they come back always refreshed, always with experiences from other places, and so I, I think that, you know, if that’s the kind of change you’re thinking about, I think that once people see the potential or, or are presented with, here’s ten candidates. One’s kind of, you know, an up and coming career; one person would stay here, and this would be the only thing they’d do. You know, I think that boards are probably going to say-- well; I think they’d like the person [laughter] who’s on the way up. Does that make sense? Is that kind of what you’re going for?
Major: It certainly makes sense to me. You talked about her ability to, to forge community relations. What distinct obligations did the music director have to the community, do you think?
Hart: Distinct obligations to the community.
Major: You know, in view of, of this notion that, that, the guy needs to come in and move to Norfolk and stay. What, what is your view of the obligations that, that a music director has to the community?
Hart: Well I, you know, I think that, because, in just about any city, orchestras are, generally speaking, you know, it’s like the orchestra and the museum. They represent the cream of the crop of the cultural community. They’re at the top of the food chain, the eight hundred pound gorillas [laughter] you know, of the art scene, and, and therefore, you know, there I, I think, there’s a responsibility for them to be very engaged, knowledgeable about the politics of the community, knowledgeable about the, you know, the sensitivities of the community, knowledgeable about the people and the history of the community, and, and, and be willing to, you know, set the context of the art form in that. And I think that’s where probably some people, you know, the maestro syndrome, where people think that art for art sake and that, you know, if you, you know, you must come to the mountain. You know, if you build it, people will come. It’s not the case any more, you know. Arts organizations have to be integrated into the community, and the music director role, like it or not, is the front person. You know, they’re the person who is out there. Executive directors like me run around, you know, doing all kinds of things in the background and have somewhat of a public profile, but the music director is really the face of the symphony. And therefore they have a big commitment to, a big responsibility to take the community seriously and interact with it as positively as possible and be a spokesman not only for the orchestra but for the arts in general. JoAnn, I would say JoAnn does all [laughter] those things too. For sure!
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Major: Yes! I agree. What was your role in interacting with the musicians?
Hart: Well, you know, it’s--During the season daily basis, you know. Most rehearsals and, you know, there was, you know, a lot of times was talking about the financial situation, just making them kind of aware of where the BPO or the VSO was at. You know, negotiations was a big part of it. I can’t remember how many negotiations I went through there. I think it may have been three. Maybe two but maybe three. So,…
Major: Multi-year contracts.
Hart: Yeah, you know maybe coming in at the tail end of one, and then a short one, and so it would seem like we were always negotiating [laughter]. But in addition to that, just, you know,--being around them, interacting at rehearsals or concerts, seeing them, so...
Major: How easy or difficult was it to recruit professional orchestra members? What were the major challenges in recruiting?
Hart: Well, I think when we had openings; I mean I think that the only challenge about Virginia is just that the salaries were so low. You know, low 20s probably at that time. I don’t know if they’ve gotten much better now or not. But Virginia Symphony is, I would say, gosh I just can’t see how it’s not like the hardest working orchestra in America. Because it’s, it’s the travel, and it’s the opera, on top of an already busy schedule. I mean if, if I just was looking at the brochure for the next year, and you know… at half the budget or a third of the budget, the Virginia Symphony is functioning like, you know, well, like, like an orchestra with three times the budget or almost like a full-time professional orchestra. Cause if you figure, like the Indianapolis Symphony—OK, well they’re a 24 million dollar a year orchestra, 52 week contract. But, musicians are only working 42 weeks. The VSO contract was 42 weeks with a couple weeks of vacation. So, from an ongoing, from the orchestra standpoint, they are working just as much as a 23 million dollar orchestra. They’re just not being compensated for it [laughter], you know! And so, on the other hand, in the orchestra field, you know, there are only a hundred jobs for flute players in America…that pay 20,000 dollars or more. So, you can imagine with the, with the level of, you know, the, the kind of kids universities are cranking out, there is an abundance of highly qualified players, and so, you know, just about anywhere you’d be, you’re going to get a good, you know, pool of people to, for auditions when you advertise a job, even if it’s 20,000 dollars. Because, you know, that job playing in a professional orchestra is better than no job at all. For a young musician, and I think that, you know, maybe some musicians see it as a stepping stone. We, you know, we had some brilliant musicians come through Virginia. Danny Matsukawa, who went from, you know, Virginia to National to Philadelphia just like that. I mean, you know, really amazing people that you can have in your orchestra, and they-- and the next day they could win an audition for the New York Philharmonic. I mean, that’s how
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good some of the musicians are there. So, you know, I’d say that we had, you know, good opportunities to recruit people. But certainly the salary would probably keep a lot of people away. And they just, say a string player for instance, well I can make more money in Chicago freelancing then that, so we probably have a harder time with strings. But we have the same problem here with the BPO, too.
Major: Really?
Hart: Yeah.
Major: But the musicians were put on salary in 1985. What was the effect of making that step forward? Was the, a full time salary to an orchestra for the first time?
Hart: I didn’t realize it was that, that recent. But, you know, I think what that has done along with every other orchestra in America that has been professional is basically, that just creates a situation where, you know, the boards and the management have to look for opportunities to cover the cost. You know, all of a sudden, OK, whereas before you’ve had something you could pay on an as- needed basis. Now you have a fixed cost that you have to cover, and so that leads to basically a proliferation of the concert, concert opportunities. And you know, so if you have, if you are guaranteeing the musicians at least__ weeks worth of work, you are going to have to do a concert someplace. [laughter]
Major: [laughter]
Hart: So, [laughter] you know, I, I would say, I, I have never looked at the schedule pre-1985, but I would hazard a guess that, the level of activity that the orchestra then moved into had a lot more series.
Major: The musicians I‘ve talked with have talked about the moderate schedule that they used to play and the schedule now.
Hart: Yeah, it’s crazy! [laughter]
Major: Yeah, it’s a lot.
Hart: Yeah [laughter]
Major: The opportunities for us concert-goers. Lots of opportunities. During your time were there labor relations issues that became serious?
Hart: I don’t think that there is anything real serious. I mean, I think that, that really the one thing that I remember about that orchestra is, I felt like--I, you know there’s lots of little things that happened during, you know, any work situation, but over all, I felt like the board and staff and management were pretty much on the
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same page. That we had a plan, that we were moving forward to take care of the problems that we had encountered and that everybody was in the boat together. And a good example of this is that I think that at least on two if not three occasions, I had to stand up in front of the orchestra and say. “We could not make your pay.” Yeah, this is reality; I mean, and I remember one time saying to the orchestra, and it was not a situation where it was like, you know, we’re never going to pay you again. It was like, “Listen, this is our cash flow situation. We can pay you 80% now and 20% of your check next week.” So it was always something that we, we knew where it was. It was really just a matter of timing. But, I remember once, maybe it was the first time, talking to I don’t know if it was John Lindberg or somebody, saying, you know. Well, you know, I am happy to go to the staff and say, “You guys have to wait till next week.” And his response was, “No, we are all in this together; everybody takes the same hit,” you know. So, you know, I think that was, you know, spoke volumes about their willingness to, to be seen as one unit and to also buy into the fact that it, it wasn’t that we were just not doing our jobs, and you know this--we were dealing with a pretty hard reality of cash flow, but at the same time, we had a vision, you know. We were making recordings; we were going to Carnegie Hall; we were making plans for the future, and that we would therefore get through the, the hard times together, too. And, you know, I think that there was the, one of the years there was, gosh, I think we were in a ____ where we can’t settle, could not settle a contract, took a year, I think it took over a year. So, [laughter] I mean there are definitely tough times. But I don’t think that it was really any big fracas or it wasn’t a, you know, it wasn’t a controversial thing like that on the big picture.
Major: What were the things that, that you particularly feel you were able to do to develop optimal conditions for the, the ensemble to make music?
Hart: Uh, what were the things that I could do?
Major: Yeah. What were, what were, are the things that you regarded as your particular accomplishments in, in making this situation optimal for making music?
Hart: Well, you know, I think that was, I think it was pretty much, boiled down to my particular role in trying to establish some fiscal stability. Because if everybody’s worried about their next paycheck or worried about where the orchestra is going or does not see a future, then morale will be bad, you know, things problems will fester, and ___ that. So I think having an open, openness to communication and financial situations so everybody knows what’s going on, but also, you know, being instrumental and, you know, saying, “Hey, we are going to Carnegie Hall in a year and a half.” That just, you know, that, that’s probably the best thing that, that I could, I could do. Is just to give people confidence that there was, there was a future, and it was not going to get worse, and that things were going to get better over time, with this, with the plan that we have, the strategic plan. So, I think that, that, you know, logistically you know___. I remember one of the first things I saw, saw the Virginia Symphony, they were
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playing on platform sheets at, over at the Mariner’s Museum; in, in the park; on not a stage, on platform, four by eight sheets of plywood
Major: Oh, oh I see.
Hart: On, on the ground
Major: Oh right, right. Yeah
Hart: [laughter] So, there was a more down, you know down and dirty kind of thing. I think I said “We’re never going to play on a floor like that again.” So, [laughter]
Major: [laughter]
Hart: I, I think we always bought a stage or rented a stage at that point. [Laughter]
Major: [Laughter]
Hart: That, that would be a much more, you know, logistical, you know, accommodation.
Major: How did the VSO become a nationally recognized symphony?
Hart: Well, I think it was, you know, certainly the recordings that JoAnn did while we were there and the Carnegie Hall thing. I mean, those are the kinds of things that, and also just having someone that you know is kind of like what we were saying before; you know, JoAnn is out in the world. Everywhere she goes, she carries the name of the Virginia Symphony with her. People that are here read it every concert that we have; you know, she’s also the music director of the Virginia Symphony. So, I think that kind of thing, kind of spreads around and just, just starts to, starts to build some credibility and recognition.
Major: What does it, I understand that that is a formal designation of, what is it the symphony organization, …?
Hart: The Aswel or…
Major: I think so, so what does the designation say about the symphony’s strengths when, when it has the designation Nationally Recognized Symphony? What does that say about the strengths?
Hart: Oh I don’t know,… you know, it’s hard to say. You know, we all have to hype ourselves, you know. Kansas City is nationally recognized, too. They are all
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pretty much nationally recognized in the same way. But I think that, you know the interesting program, you know, the kind of things that set orchestras apart: recording, touring, commissions, you know, interesting projects. You know, I think, I think probably even being a part of the Virginia International Arts Festival. OK, that’s something that, you know, has taken, you know, the, the VSO is a part of that, and that has taken another life of its own. And so the association with that as a kind of orchestra in residence I think has probably helped, too. You know that’s just another component of something. What is, what is the special profile of the VSO compared to any other, Kansas City or Indianapolis or Fort Wayne or any other orchestras out there? And those are some of the things that count towards it.
Major: How has the VSO Foundation contributed to the symphony’s viability?
Hart: ….. The foundation…
Major: The endowment.
Hart: The endowment, OK. Well, I think in our, you know, I, I can’t remember… You know, it was part of our goal to increase the endowment as was-- I just can’t think of the numbers off the top of my head, Jean. But, you know, certainly the more endowment you have, the more stable the organization would be. You know I, and I, I do think that fund raising in Hampton Roads was tough. You know, my view of it now, being here is that, gosh, it’s such a rich economy in many ways. I mean, you know, just by the sheer metro population and the kinds of companies that are there. You know, I know that everybody kind of has a tendency to look at other cities and say, “Oh, but they have this or they have more Fortune 500 companies,” or something like that. But, you know, the tourism economy, Norfolk Southern, the military economy, that’s a big economy, and, and I always felt like-- and people make money, no matter where you are, people can make money, developers, whatever it is. So there is great wealth there. But somehow I think it was very hard to instill the philanthropic spirit.
Major: I’ve heard that before.
Hart: Yeah, yeah. Just a tough…
Major: Yeah. Well before your arrival in Norfolk, several local ensembles merged to result in the establishment of the Virginia Orchestra Group. That took place in 1979. What vestiges of that struggle existed during your time?
Hart: Yeah, I don’t think that there’s, you know, I was trying to, when I read that question, I had to refresh my memory, but that was like one of the first kind of consolidations that the orchestra industry had ever seen, I think. Cause wasn’t it three orchestras?
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Major: Yes,
Hart: Virginia Beach, Norfolk, and one other
Major: Peninsula
Hart: One on the Peninsula. Yeah. So, you know, I don’t think that there was any, any ill will or anything like that, but I think that that certainly instilled in the Virginia Symphony that its, its mandate to serve the entire Hampton Roads community, however far-flung that [laughter] would be. And I don’t know, you know, there was always the kind of, the parts that were--if there was any,… it’s not even hard feelings, but the only times that we had any problems like with the scheduling or something like that would be with Williamsburg and Virginia Beach. [Laughter] So, I think they held, they wanted to hold on to their own kind of little ensembles, and indeed they did develop under different people. But they, they, they always viewed, I think, the VSO as in conflict with what they were doing. And the city, the city leaderships, I think, probably didn’t know quite to do. They had to support their own, but they also loved the VSO, I mean, so…. But other than that, I think that, you know, I think that would be viewed as pretty much a successful merger all the way around because the VSO has only gotten stronger. It’s been able to recruit somebody like JoAnn Falletta, and so that the combination of things has really worked to the advantage of the region.
Major: What aspects of leadership came into your play, into play in your interactions with various groups you worked with? In terms of, of your whole set of leadership skills, which aspects came into play, with these various groups?
Hart: …I don’t know how to answer that. I guess___ for my own personally, I really felt that Virginia Symphony, although I’d had other jobs, I mean I really felt like I had to step out a little bit and be even more, more aggressive, I guess, and, you know, going after what I thought we, we needed, and maybe that has to do with the fact that were so many different constituencies, just going back to the whole idea of Hampton Roads being, you know, all the different towns and villages and cities and, you know, trying to navigate the, you know, the kind of political landscape of the Peninsula, the Beach, you know, Norfolk and all that kind of stuff, so trying, have, having to, having to be a little bit more, I guess, just aggressive in pursuing things instead of kind of sitting back and watching things happen. I guess that’s… the one thing that springs to mind.
Major: Are there things that you would like to comment about, about that I haven’t asked about?
Hart: No, I just, I really think that it was a ___, and I really felt like it was a very special time. You know, I did learn a lot, you know, as, as a part of my career ladder because I got the, the experience just about every situation possible in four years. [laughter] You know, from the worst to the best! And, you know, I
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think it really, it really challenged me. I grew a lot from that experience and, you know, met a lot of great people and a, just a, I thought it was just a wonderful, a wonderful tenure there, so.
Major: Thank you very much. This has been fascinating.
Hart: [laughter]
Major: I have enjoyed it very much.
END OF INTERVIEW
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