Major: This is Jean Major. I’m talking with Matt Werth. The date is January 25, 2008. Matt, tell me when were you a member of the staff of the Virginia Symphony or at that time the Norfolk Symphony
Werth: I joined the symphony in April 1972 and was there until 1979.
Major: Okay, and what was your position?
Werth: And I was associate director and business manager.
Major: Can you—talk to me a little bit about the scope of those responsibilities.
Werth: Well, I’m reading now through the resume that I did right after I left the symphony, and I was responsible for office management, employment of office personnel, supervision of non-administrative staff, supervision of insurance, maintenance of equipment in the library, negotiation and execution of contracts with employees and of leases with owners of rented space, For the treasurer, maintenance of accurate books of account and records of the association, issuance of periodic financial reports, the handling of all funds and maintenance of bank accounts, as well as preparation of the annual budget, writing and administering federal and state grants, financial planning, directing public relations, creation and placement of advertising, news releases, as well as creating, editing, and printing programs and selling ads for the programs, plus, the creation, printing, and distribution of subscription brochures and the annual fund brochure. Also responsible for annual fund liaison, artist arrangements, concert series and tour production, union relations, auxiliary and volunteer assistance.
Major: At least fulltime.
Werth: Very fulltime. [Laughter]
Major: Was this in a long succession of arts management positions?
Werth: It followed my nine-year tenure as business manager of the old Norfolk Museum of Arts and Sciences.
Major: What is now the Chrysler Museum?
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Werth: Which is now the Chrysler Museum, and I was there from January of ’62 until September of ’71. And I was responsible for management of the business and membership department, prepared budgets of the museum for the city, administered group hospitalization and pension plans, served as liaison with the board of trustees and as acting secretary of the board. As membership secretary, I was responsible for membership promotion and membership records, planned and booked a variety of new membership programs;, including films series, artist-craftsman demonstrations, cabarets and NATO evenings, planned and accompanied safaris local and overnight to other museums, historic homes, and museum theater presentations. Our major accomplishment was we increased membership from 250 to 3,419 in six years. I established a pension plan for the museum staff, selecting the plan, obtaining city and board approval and administering the plan.
Major: And where did you go after the symphony?
Werth: After the symphony, I had a temporary job with the Planning Council of the United Fund as an administrative assistant to George Rice, the executive director. And I was there about six months, and I worked with a very, an extremely intelligent bunch of ladies who were Junior League ladies who had volunteered with him, and when they were really good, he’d hire them. One was Marjorie Krome; you remember Jack Krome?
Major: I should say do.
Werth: Marge Krome was one and... Oh, Lord, they were really an amazing group, and Dr. Jerry Adamson who was on the symphony board…
Major: I know the name.
Werth: …he found out I was unemployed in the arts, and I was hired by the old members of the officers of the symphony board. I wrote this all out so it might be better if I read it, I but that’s how I got back into arts administration.
Major: Really?
Werth: Yes. Jerry Adamson found me. They invited me for an interview in the Harbor Club, I think, and they hired me and said, “Matthew, get a handle on the money, and if they don’t pay, don’t play.” And so, we ran a very tight budget, and it went very well almost the whole time I was there for seven years.
Major: Mm-hmm, and that was the time in the ‘70s.
Werth: Yeah, yeah it was from…
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Major: Right, ’72 to ’79.
Werth: Yes, and so it was a very—very tight budget process, and what we did basically was I would write two grants a year, which more than paid for my salary. I sold a lot of program ads, which generated more money, and we—the grants were written so that we could underwrite all our run-out concerts with a grant to neighboring cities, and then we had a sponsor in each city. So, if we went to Suffolk, the Rotary paid the fee, but we had a grant under it. If we went to Isle of Wight, Smithfield, we had a grant under it.
Major: I see.
Werth: Bless her heart, Ms. Gwaltney, who lived over there, was a great donor to the symphony, and if we went to Franklin, Jack Camp of Camp Paper would sponsor the concert, but we had a grant under it. So, this was how we kept, you know, on an even keel, and we tried very hard not to go in the red at all, so that was the approach.
Major: I see. What were some of the high points of your time with the symphony?
Werth: Well, there were several high points. We had a guest artist booked, and over a year before her concert, she died in Europe. We read about it in the paper, and I’m sure we were notified by her agent. This loss concerned Russell Stanger so much that he called me while I was still on vacation at Virginia Beach and asked me what I would do about it. I was delighted to be asked because I was very aware that Benny Goodman had appeared with great success with the Richmond Symphony. Russell was a bit surprised but agreed, and Norman Willcox, the president, had no idea that Benny was a classical musician as well as the “King of Swing.” The concert was a sellout. The press for the first time was knocking on our door to write up the appearance. Judge ______ Gary phoned me and insisted that we find 11 tickets for Norfolk Academy students, and we had an outstanding ticket manager named Patsy Heddrick who found 11 scattered seats available for the concert. Benny also performed after the classical section of the concert during which he played Weber’s Concertino for Clarinet and Orchestra Opus 26. After this classical work, Benny brought on his Benny Goodman Quartet and performed the Benny Goodman medley. This was after the intermission. He brought with him his own favorite drummer, and they brought down the house with favorite swing selections. It was the first time I received thank you notes from the audience for bringing him again to Norfolk where he had not appeared since the ‘40s, when he played at the Cavalier Club at Virginia Beach. Benny was also absolutely charmed by Norfolk when he checked in at Omni Hotel with which we had a close working relationship. The beautiful young receptionist said, “Mr. Goodman, we have been waiting for you. Your room will be ready in five minutes, and I just saw the movie of your life, The Benny Goodman Story, and I could not wait to meet you.” When he got to the room there was wine, cheese, and fruit, and he looked out the window at the
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water, and he said, “This is as good as Europe,” and invited me to dinner. [Laughter] The dress rehearsal was in Chrysler Hall, and it pleased him greatly as the hall was new with new red plush seats, and it made a wonderful first impression on all the guest artists, as did the Norfolk Airport sitting in the middle of the Azalea Garden. They would get three impressions of Norfolk: the airport which was unusual, Chrysler Hall which knocked them out, and you know the hotel was excellent, so that’s what they saw. Ultimately, it was a tremendously successful concert, and he invited Russell to conduct two concerts for him in California of Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue ,and Russell accepted. The second high point was when E. K. Sloane gave us sixteen thousand dollars to purchase a new Steinway symphony piano. I immediately deposited this money in Atlantic Permanent Savings and Loan in an interest-bearing account – all by itself. Over a year later, he phoned me and said, “Matt, where is that money I gave you for the piano?” I was extremely pleased to say, “E. K., that money is on deposit at Atlantic Permanent and has been earning interest ever since you gave it to us. It is a line item on the financial report, and no one has touched it.” He said, “I cannot tell you how happy I am to know that; you have made my day.” As you know, too often money that is earmarked to be on reserve for a specific purpose is used for day-to-day operational expenses. The symphony was later criticized editorially on February 25, 2003 in the Virginian-Pilot for using endowment money in that way – long after I left, I am happy to say. One manager after I left used money earmarked for the Kennedy Center appearance for day-to-day expenses and was fired post-haste. I am happy to say I was well trained in bank operations by the Bank of Virginia and did not make that mistake with money on reserve; they were trust funds. I would say another high point was when I was employed by the Norfolk Symphony. I had been business manager of the Norfolk Museum of Arts and Sciences from ’62 to ’71, during the last nine years of Brian Caldwell’s tenure as museum director. During this period, we had built membership from 250 to 3,419. He had a membership wheel in his office, which I changed daily, where it was necessary to show him how many members we had. It said 250 when I was first employed. I wrote a report on how we built membership for Bill Hennessey, current director of the Chrysler Museum, and reviewed the annual reports on the Norfolk Museum for accurate information. The figure of 3,419 came from the annual report of 1968. I was employed by the symphony when Dr. Jerry Adamson realized I was available and working temporarily as the Assistant to the President of the Planning Council of the United Fund. The committee that hired me was made up of senior symphony board members including Norman Willcox, Bob Nusbaum, Dickey ______, and O.B. James, the treasurer. They liked the fact that I had nine years of experience in the area working with the arts community, the city, the city manager, Tom Maxwell, an outstanding museum board including Wiley Grandy, who was treasurer, and the membership were often the same people who supported the symphony. They said, “This makes sense. You’re established; you have family roots in the area. We are sending you to symphony managers school in New York City for one week at Steinway Hall. You just transfer your museum experience and skills to the symphony.” The symphony managers
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school was very helpful in clarifying exactly what the manager’s responsibilities were and his relationship with the maestro. It was a team effort, with the maestro handling the arts side: the music, the selection of guest artists, and picking the musicians. The manager oversaw all the business side of the operation: the office staff, the orchestra payroll, and all of the day-to-day operations. The manager had a contract, which outlined his duties extensively and in detail. The music director also had a contract outlining his responsibilities. We were to work harmoniously together, and Russell was easy to work with and very good at what he did, with outstanding talent and preparation for the job. He was right for Norfolk and made his home here. There were a few other high points. Russell called one day to ask me to arrange a New Year’s Eve Pops concert at the Omni Hotel. The theme was to bring in the New Year with the Norfolk Symphony and take an elevator home. [Laughter] It was a sell-out and extremely successful, and the Omni gave a special low room rate for those attending to go straight from the concert to their room. As a result, I was invited by the American Symphony Orchestra League at the next annual meeting for a convention to give a presentation to those attending on our operating procedure, a memorable experience.
Major: Let me ask, the Omni Hotel; is that what’s now the Sheraton?
Werth: The Sheraton, yes.
Major: Okay.
Werth: And the deal was very interesting because the manager loved to get these glossy photos of the guest artists, and he’d post them, and so we would always give him one. We really got well treated down there. It was terrific. Ralph Black, the Executive Director of the Association of the American Symphony Orchestra League, wrote all the managers on one occasion to request that they write a thank-you letter to AT&T for their sponsorship that year of major concerts in major cities by major orchestras. I was very happy to do this and wrote a thank-you as suggested not only as a manager, but also as a stockholder. I copied Ralph Black; the repercussions were wonderful. The next time I saw Ralph Black at ASOL headquarters next to Wolf Trap near Herndon, Virginia, he invited me into his office and said, “Sit down,” and then said, “You’re the only manager in the country to honor my request and write AT&T. If you ever want to leave Norfolk for another symphony job, I am sure I could help you relocate.” I told him I appreciated that, but I loved Tidewater Virginia and really wanted to stay where we had deep roots and family. We had returned from South America for just that reason, but it was great to have his approval. On return to Norfolk, the AT&T senior rep called on me at the symphony office and thanked me for my thank-you. I told him I had interviewed with AT&T after college and had wanted to work with them. He said, “We should have hired you.” At which point I practically gave him a ________. [Laughter] Russell was very good with concerts for schoolchildren, and on occasion, all of Chrysler Hall’s 2,260 seats would be
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filled with classes of schoolchildren. There was masterful seat planning that went into this with each class assigned to a specific area of seats, clearly marked and beautifully organized by school administrators. It was very orderly. One day I thought the day will come when one class will arrive and have no place to sit for some reason. Since the bottom line—what do we do then--since the bottom line of management is anticipation, I thought about this, and the solution I thought: I sat down on the floor in the right aisle and found that you could see the stage. Sure enough, a class appeared one day with a very nice young teacher, who said, “We have no place to sit and no place assigned to us.” I said, “Line up two-by-two and follow me.” We went in orderly fashion. I led them down the aisle, and they sat two at the end of each row on the floor, and everyone was happy. It would have been very disappointing to turn them away. [Laughter] That was a high point. Another high point: we had an outstanding stage manager named Bill Terry, who was a first-class Navy petty officer, a musician, and a clarinet player who was a super overseer of stage arrangements. When we booked Ethel Merman for a Pops, I talked with Richmond Symphony, where she had appeared and asked them what to expect. They said, “Be sure to have two mics to pin to her bra, as she is known for the high volume of her voice, and this really concerns her. She will be very unhappy if she does not have two mics.” So, Bill Terry, immediately as she emerged from the green room, relieved her mind and said, “Miss Merman,” and held up mic number one and pinned it on; mic number two and pinned it on. She immediately relaxed, and we had a great concert. [Laughter] Regarding the memorable moment of my employment—I told you this, I think—O.B. James, the treasurer said, “Get a handle on the money. If they don’t pay, don’t play.” In other words, no free concerts. We needed maximum earned income. The other instruction was get the maximum number of concerts from every set of five rehearsals. We managed to get as many as four concerts on occasion. We started the Encore Series – the second set of concerts for Tuesday night, following the usual Monday night Subscription Series. The Monday night series was virtually sold out, and we got the guest artists for a reduced rate on the second night. At symphony managers school in New York City, I met Gil Dougherty, manager of the North Carolina Symphony. He was going to fund-raising school in Chautauqua, New York, a one week course. I asked the board for permission to attend also, and they said, “Yes, and take your wife.” So, I was pleased to go and thoroughly enjoyed it. I was offered a job by them, but of course I could not accept, with the commitment to the Norfolk Symphony, and I did not want to leave Tidewater anyhow. They stressed and taught promotion of annuities and naming chairs in the orchestra, such as that of the concertmaster, the first violinist, etc. The donor makes a sizable contribution to the symphony, can take it off his taxes, and receives a predetermined percentage of it as income during his lifetime. This is being widely practiced now in the symphony, university, and private school world of non-profit organizations. You want—you want memorable moments other than high points?
Major: Yes, I’d love to hear one or two memorable moments that were not high points.
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Werth: A low point came when I was on vacation in Maine. I called the symphony office just to touch base and to see if they had any questions. My secretary, Joan, said, “Mr. Werth, the treasurer is now going through your desk.” I thought, “What is he looking for? There is nothing in there to embarrass me. Is somebody out to get me? That could be it. Otherwise, why doesn’t he just ask me or her for whatever he needs?” Obviously, it was not a nice thing to do or the right thing to do. In fact, it was the wrong thing to do. I was disappointed that they seemed to be looking for a way to get rid of me. Ultimately, they did get rid of me and sent John Hodgson, my best friend on the board, to tell me my position had been eliminated. The officer who sent him said, “He does not know how to give dictation.” This was laughably ridiculous and untrue, and to be sure that John knew it was untrue, I backed up my chair immediately and dictated a memo into my ever-handy dictating machine which I used frequently. What had happened: in May 1976, C. W. Shaver & Company submitted a very comprehensive report concerning the total financial development of the Norfolk Symphony Association. The study was authorized by the board of directors of the association and funded in part by a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts. I used to write two grants every year,one from the National Endowment for the Arts and the second from the Virginia Commission of the Arts and Humanities. They produced income for the symphony that exceeded my modest salary, so I felt I could show that I earned my keep. The report was favorable to me and said, “The manager knows the community extremely well and is well known and liked within it” – on page 28. It made many excellent recommendations, and the symphony board leadership had been taken over by a younger group with the exception of John Hodgson had hired a young art executive from out-of-state in Rochester, New York named Francis Crociata to implement many of these recommendations. He was much younger than I, as were six of the board officers. As to be expected, that a new and younger leadership group making the decisions would want their own man. We, the older group, hired the staff in town because it was less expensive. I’m pleased to say that Francis Crociata and I today are good friends. He wrote me the most amazing letter I have ever received asking my pardon for his treatment of me and hoping I was well and okay. I immediately wrote him back that I totally forgave him, admired his courage and generosity of spirit, and that I was working in the happiest job that I had ever had and stayed with it for 21 more years, retiring at age 76. I became start-up general manager of the Meredith Construction Company’s 25th Street and Hampton Boulevard Mini Storage, which we started from scratch; filled up—built a second floor, filled it up, bought the building across the street – filled it up, and Meredith and I both prospered from it, and it’s still going strong. I was able to accomplish this due to my promotional experience, which began with the airline job and continued through the bank, museum, and symphony positions.
Major: Oh I—one little tangent…
Werth: Yes.
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Major: When Francis Crociata left the symphony, it sounds as though he stayed in this area, is that right?
Werth: He lived in Ivy, Virginia; I think he was over…
Major: Oh, over near Charlottesville.
Werth: Yes—I don’t know; it’s not that far. I’m not really sure—no, Ivy is near Charlottesville. It wasn’t Ivy. It was over near Franklin, I think, or something.
Major: Anyhow, he stayed in Virginia.
Werth: Oh, yeah.
Major: Yeah.
Werth: Oh, definitely—and he stayed—I talked to him the other day. He stayed until ’80. Three years, I think.
Major: Uh-huh.
Werth: ’77 to ’80.
Major: All right, all right. When you started, you said that your position title was associate director and business manager.
Werth: I started as business manager, and Francis promoted me to associate director just shortly before they fired me. [Laughter]
Major: And so during most of that time when your title was business manager, was there an executive or were you the executive?
Werth: No, I was it.
Major: You were the executive.
Werth: Yes.
Major: As you’re observing the symphony and thinking about the time when you served, how did the scope of responsibilities change? How has the scope of responsibilities changed for the executive?
Werth: Well, Francis was hired to implement—there’s the Shaver Report here—this…
Major: Right, right.
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Werth: …and that was full of—it was a beautiful analysis. It’s really amazing the work that was done on this, and he was to implement most of the suggestions in that grant, in that write-up. I wrote at the time, Francis will do this, Francis does this, so it became apparent to me that they hired him really to implement, this and I think Francis feels today that they would have done well to keep me on and let him do this stuff and keep Russell till retirement age because what happened after Russell was retired as conductor emeritus was they hired a maestro named Williams who didn’t work out at all. Then another named Van something… I’ve got it here.
Major: Winston…
Werth: Winston Vogel…
Major: Winston Dan Vogel.
Werth: And he didn’t work out, and here is Russell, bless his heart, I mean he is a good friend, and they retired him about six years before he would have hit 65. And Francis, I think in hindsight, thinks we would have been smart to keep Russell another six years and keep me doing that kind of day-to-day stuff and let him do, you know, the big stuff. So, that’s where we are, but…
Major: Okay. The three groups, the symphony staff, you and your staff, and the board of directors, and the symphony league, how was the responsibility divided? What did the board do, what did the symphony league do, and what…?
Werth: Okay. The board is policy, and the top officers made the big decisions, and they were very hands-on, I think, and this executive committee did most of the big decisions. The business manager did all the nitty-gritty stuff The maestro did all the arts stuff. The executive director was technically over us, and I think he would pursue whatever those objectives were, but I was much more of a nuts-and-bolts, nitty-gritty stuff. The thing that was so different was that we made every effort to stay within a budget, and Russell will say these days, “Oh, the orchestra never sounded so good as it does now, and JoAnn is terrific.” I think there is no question about that, but he said he was operating in a tight budget situation. He could not import people. We imported somebody from the Eastern Shore and paid the tunnel toll, and that was it. You know every time we wrote her a check, we paid the tunnel toll, but we didn’t bring people in from way out, and this changed. They just started down this slippery slope until they’re two million in debt, and I frankly don’t understand it. And I mean,why they didn’t do something about it, and for example, Guil Ware, our counsel, used to negotiate all the musician contracts with the union, and they ended up paying—and he did this for love, and they ended up paying another lawyer five figures to do what he was doing for nothing. We had another guy who did the whole payroll for love...
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he’s at the Virginian-Pilot , he’s listed as an administrative assistant, named Pete Pedersen, his wife played…
Major: Fran Pedersen.
Werth: Fran, bless her heart, and Pete, I think he did the payroll just for love, you know, pro bono. So, they had a completely different attitude. They went big time without the money to do it.
Major: When you say that the board was very hands-on, one of things that I have noticed is that there were periods with what I thought was a huge board. Did all of the board put in that kind of work, or was it the executive committee that was very hands-on and…
Werth: Executive committee.
Major: What about these other people?
Werth: Okay. I don’t know because I wasn’t there when this came about. I gather that under Minette, you got on the board if you gave x amount over x period of time, or you raised it. Well, that’s not a bad idea. I mean, lord knows, they needed the money, and if they weren’t going to give it, then they promised to raise it somehow, and I’m not sure that, you know, when I was there this was the case at all. Some of them were very generous. I think Minette changed it in that way, and that probably was a great idea.
Major: Besides you, how much--how large was the staff?
Werth: Nine, counting me.
Major: Nine.
Werth: Yes, and ten when Francis came.
Major: Mm-hmm, and I understand from what you said that, because you kept a tight rein on money, the symphony enjoyed financial stability during your time.
Werth: We were very stable during this time. Francis said the other day to me, when he took over, we were in the hole about eight thousand dollars. He said somebody on the board could have written a check for that, but we didn’t get far in. I mean we got in—Norman Willcox said something about fourteen thousand when I last talked to him, and he said, “Fourteen thousand, and now it’s two million,” so that’s what happened. I mean, we tried real hard not to go in the hole. We did things to save money that I don’t think most of this group knows. At the American Symphony Orchestra League conventions, all the managers would bring their promotional material and put it on a great big table. Then we
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would go look through that and pick up something that fit our situation from another orchestra. This saved a lot of advertising money. ____ you got these great ideas from somebody else, got them printed, and, you know, did your thing, and it saved a fortune. We were so cost conscious, so that was the difference, and I see a takeover by young people. This was a generational thing. The old guys know how bad it is to have a horrible debt, and then you’re paying interest on this. Do they have any idea they are going to be paying interest on, on two million dollars? I mean, that’s a lot of money, and so we ran a little bit, but we really tried hard to get back even, and that slippery slope started after I left. I don’t think Francis did that either. I think he was here three years.
Major: Can you characterize the Russell Stanger period with the orchestra?
Werth: I can.
Major: All right.
Werth: Russell Stanger’s 14-year tenure with the orchestra was a period of orchestra building. Guest artists like Isaac Stern and Aaron Copland and Leonard Pennario, with whom Russell had worked in New York City, came to Norfolk and liked what they saw. Russell built the orchestra with tight budgeting when I was business manager. During the second half of his tenure, that is his last seven years, I feel we had the best guest artists in the world. Please see the book of autograph pictures we collected. We had a great reputation for good hospitality, and they loved it here. Russell and Millie would take them home; so did we, and they became good friends. What were the strengths of his programming? Want to hear that?
Major: Yes, I sure do.
Werth: The strength of his programming was that, while not neglecting the old masters, the old classical composers, he balanced his concerts by introducing the best of the new and more contemporary composers. Picking a concert at random: in November 8, 1976, he played Shostakovich Symphony No. 6 in B Minor in the first half of the program, and after intermission, Brahms Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in D Minor No. 1 Opus 15. The guest artist was Horatio Gutierrez, the pianist. The Times of London described Gutierrez with his virtuosities of the kind in which legends are made. He was terrific. Russell introduced our audiences also to newer composers including Mahler, Scriabin, Lutoslawski, Prokofiev, as well as Shostakovich. Other areas in which he was particularly effective…other areas where Russell was outstanding was as a great credit to himself and Norfolk every year when he traded podiums with maestros of a foreign city’s orchestra. He did this every year, and their music director would come here. One favorite guest artist was Christina Walevska, the cellist. She’s a beautiful Polish-American musician that Norman Willcox, then president, admired, and to conduct that concert we imported Tadeusz Strugala while Russell
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used his podium in Wrotslav, Poland. Russell would always take several Norfolk mace pins and tie pins to give to the mayor and other dignitaries who entertained him. He got wonderful press abroad and helped promote Norfolk wherever he was. I also felt he was outstanding when we went on the road with the little symphony of 40 players and performed in Franklin, Suffolk, where we were sponsored by the Rotary, Franklin by Camp Paper, Smithfield and Isle of Wight by Mrs. Gwaltney, the beautiful and generous board member who would take us home. Russell always had to have board permission to make these trips to Europe, as they did not want to lose him to another orchestra.
Major: During this time period, in this area there was an expectation that the conductor would settle locally and that the Virginia Symphony, the Norfolk Symphony, would be his primary professional association. What were considered the advantages of that arrangement?
Werth: Okay, there were many advantages. There was no maestro in the area with his talent, experience, and outstanding ability to build a good symphony. His public relations ability was excellent. One example that immediately occurs to me is his friendship with Ludwig Diehn, the composer and multi-millionaire and kind gentleman, and a Norfolk resident. We played his work usually once every year or maybe every other year, and he gave to the symphony generously. Our counsel, Guil Ware, became his lawyer, and ultimately Ludwig left ODU the money for the Diehn music library, plus the Diehn Foundation, 12 million dollars to the Diehn Foundation. The Diehn Foundation—I had the pleasure of serving on the board of the Diehn Foundation with Guil Ware and Russell. Our mission is to help worthy classical music organizations and provide music scholarships for deserving music students. The Diehn Foundation operates under the umbrella of the Norfolk Foundation. It is wonderful to have the income from that 12 million to help appropriate classical organizations and students. The gift of Ludwig Diehn to ODU may well give them the opportunity to be tops in the state for music education. So…viability…
Major: During your time period at the symphony, a merger took place, which resulted in the Virginia Orchestra group, the merger of the Norfolk Symphony, the Virginia Beach, and the Peninsula Orchestra. What can you tell me about the process that took place leading up to that?
Werth: My work with the symphony was 28 years ago, but as I remember, the confidential Shaver Report was very important to the long-range planning committee which hired Francis Crociata as executive director to implement its recommendations.
Major: That’s this report that you…
Werth: Yes.
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Major: Okay, got it.
Werth: Francis found managing the merger was very difficult. I do remember that Cary McMurran, who was conductor,maestro, of the Peninsula Symphony and lived in Newport News – I knew him very well because I had lived over there when I was with the Bank of Virginia. He was very gentlemanly about it and was of an age where he was on the threshold of retirement anyhow and may have been happy to see his symphony be well used in the region. Walter Noona, on the other hand, had started and built the Virginia Beach Symphony and resisted the merger strongly and said he’d start a competitive new orchestra if they took his over. That was an obstacle. Also, the Virginia Opera had organized and started up in a very strong way and received excellent press coverage and sucked up much community financial support. I do not remember that I was still on the staff when the merger finally took place. After I left, they terminated Russell as maestro emeritus and hired a music director named Williams, then one named Vogel. Neither stayed very long or seemed to fit the job or the community. It was an unstable period, apparently, with a number of managers who did not stay long.
Major: What are your thoughts about how it finally became a successful merger?
Werth: I don’t really know how they finally got together because I was busy in the storage business. [Laughter] So, but I think Francis would know, and it would probably good to interview him sometime.
Major: Okay. Had the foundation been organized during your time?
Werth: I don’t think so, but I talked to Guil Ware about it. I don’t remember what year they started, but he said the foundation was started—or I said the foundation was started by Guil Ware, our counsel, and it was meant to build up and help the symphony to reach a point of excellence. Guil said, “It was improperly used on occasion for day-to-day expenses.” The symphony was criticized in a Virginian-Pilot editorial on February 25, ’03 when it said, “One year to finance operating expenses it liquidated a grant made expressly for endowment, a mistake that raised doubts about its stewardship.” [Pause] So, anyhow, that was a big mistake, and I’ve got a copy of that editorial somewhere.
Major: It’s always a big mistake.
Werth: But that was not a good thing to do because then they lost corporate sponsorship that they already had in the bag.
Major: It’s always a mistake to do that.
Werth: And you know the government does it all the time with Social Security. I mean our Social Security is gone. [Laughter]
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Major: Right. How about the Symphony League? What does the Symphony League, what has the Symphony League contributed to the viability of the symphony?
Werth: Let’s see, the Symphony League. The ladies raised money with the Symphony Ball and a cookbook and helped with sales of subscriptions and public relations. Winnie Maddock headed up sales of tickets and their fundraising. She was extremely hard-working for years, and I enjoyed working with her. I used to work with Winnie on promoting, and when I first came on board, she said, “I have arranged for a van to be loaned to us, a trailer to go over to some shopping center, and we had a whole lot of leaflets, brochures to give out, and we gave them out over there. And on other occasions she had a connection with the address people who were on—not far from Chrysler Hall. You’d go over there, and you’d pick neighborhoods and get them to do direct mail to affluent neighborhoods, and we did all sorts of stuff like that, and she was very hard working and kept right on going. [Laughter]
Major: How were symphony musicians recruited during your time?
Werth: During my time—I talked to John Lindberg about this, and he said that musicians coming to Norfolk who wanted to work with the symphony would come in, and they’d audition, and if they were good, they would put them on. The discouraging thing for musicians was they didn’t make enough from the symphony to really make a living, so we often had to find them another job. I did this often with—and I ended up working with Meredith Construction; I had Pete Meredith hire one or two in the construction business. They didn’t last very long, but we were always trying to get somebody to hire them. So the great—good result came when we needed a principal trumpet. Have you heard this story before about Steve Carlson?
Major: I haven’t heard as much as I want to. I’ve asked but I’ve never got the full story, so I am very glad that you’re able to tell me.
Werth: Well, one of the best experiences I had was when Russell said we need to advertise nationally for a principal trumpet, and there is a musicians’ newspaper, and we ran an ad and said this, and then we gave audition dates, and I think they paid their own way here. And Steve Carlson turned up with his wife, Patti. And he was good, and she was a good clarinet player, and we hired him, and we got him a job at Norfolk State to teach. He ended up getting a PhD in performance. She ended up principal clarinet, and he’s still going strong. I used to see him all over Norfolk at weddings and in churches. He’s just a delight, both of them, so that was really a wonderful finding of a good musician, but most of the time, they’d just kind of turn up, and you’d test them to see if they were good enough, said John Lindberg, and he said, “Fortunately, most of them stayed.”
Major: Were there labor relations issues?
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Werth: Yes, there sure were, and in fact, they went out on strike right after I was hired. I don’t remember much in detail except that Guil Ware, our counsel, used to do the negotiating, and he was amazingly good, and they’d say, “We need more money,” and he’d say, “If we had more money, we’d give it to you, but we don’t have enough money to give to you,” and finally he would resolve it. I don’t know how he did it, but he was really something. And so, they did that every now and then, and it was a union contract. We were very focused on, you know, meeting our obligations under that, you know the number of performances and so forth.
Major: Mm-hmm, did you ever work with the Youth Orchestra?
Werth: I worked with their best representative on the board of the symphony was Oscar Birshtein, and he was sort of their sponsor, and I worked with Oscar, helped him any way I could, and I went to some of their concerts and… I can’t remember what else we did, but he was a delightful man, and he was very proactive with the youth so…and they were quite good.
Major: And who conducted the Youth Orchestra at that time?
Werth: I think Sidney Berg did.
Major: Okay.
Werth: And of course he was head of the Norfolk Public Schools, and he was good.
Major: Right.
Werth: They were both devoted.
Major: Yeah, how about the Community Music School?
Werth: I had—I don’t remember having anything to do with them. I don’t remember much about them.
Major: Okay, was there a chorus at the time you were there?
Werth: There wasn’t a symphony chorus as such, but when Russell wrote in 1976 his Bicentennial Symphony – are you aware of this that he wrote?
Major: No.
Werth: This was a tremendous labor of love on his part, and let’s see if I can find it here. [Pause] He had—we had a world premiere concert on October 11,
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1976 celebrating the bicentennial. It was composed by our own Russell Stanger. It featured Old Dominion University Choir, the Norfolk State College Choir, the Cantata Chorus of Norfolk, The Christ and St. Luke’s Boys Choir, in addition to the Regimental Fifes and Drums of the City of Chesapeake. We worked closely with all of them, and it was a wonderful experience. Last night I was reading the program notes, and I can’t remember ever having read the program notes before, but he worked for well over a year on this thing, and it was an incredible labor of love. It really was, and I don’t think that people had any idea how hard he worked, and how good he was. And you know he’s been going to Japan, he’s made 12 trips to Japan, and he’s written symphonies for the two Norfolk sister cities, Kitakuyshu and Misaka, and my wife was in the entourage to one of those trips and knew Russell way back. In fact, his wife Millie’s father was her father’s CPA, so they go way back. I hadn’t thought about Russell’s situation, being short of retirement, what he’s been going to Saratoga to conduct the Youth Orchestra of the State of New York for 20 years at least.
Major: Certainly as long as I’ve known him.
Werth: Yes, and I think he’s not going to make it this year probably due to health, but we saw him up there, and that was a big part of his life, and then the Diehn Foundation; we work on that, give scholarships to them up there so a lot more locally.
Major: Well, one thing that I hadn’t thought about asking you until you started talking about Chrysler Hall. Was the symphony, were you or other people involved with the symphony involved in planning Chrysler Hall?
Werth: John Paul C. Hanbury, who was the president of the symphony, was one of the architects for Chrysler Hall, and a memorable moment was when a newspaper reporter called me up and said, “That Chrysler Hall does not have any drinking fountains, and what do you think?” I said, “Mr. Hanbury is president of our board, and I’m sure it will get straightened out quick.” [Laughter] I would not say anything negative about John Paul, but that was a slight oversight. The other thing that happened was that you probably know the acoustics were very bad, and Russell said when he started to conduct in there, the sound was out of sight, straight up. The violins were playing this way because of the vibration, so they had a big acoustical problem. Admiral Bell was in charge, and he brought in acoustical engineers, and they did a rework on acoustics, and they got them fairly good after a while, but it was very frustrating at first, and the hall just wasn’t good for acoustics to begin with; anyhow that was a tough one. I mean I think they’re fairly good now.
Major: I think it is, too. One of the things that I wish for, in a way it’s a small thing, is so annoying that there is no center aisle on the main floor.
Werth: Yes, that’s known as continental seating.
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Major: Oh.
Werth: And its theory is there are exits on the end of each aisle, and you’re supposed to pour out into those right and left exits, and that was the theory, but you’re right; it’s much missed. [Laughter]
Major: It sure is. Are there things that you hoped I would ask about that I haven’t brought up?
Werth: Let’s see…. Let’s see, yeah, let’s see, I’d like to talk about how I got into arts administration in the first place.
Major: Great! Yes, I’d like to know.
Werth: After excellent training and experience in airline operations, I was trained in Guayaquil, Ecuador to manage an airport in Talara, Peru. Talara, Peru is the end of the world; it’s the most westerly point on the South American map. The only reason you’d go there was an oil camp for International Petroleum Company and the best deep sea fishing in the world, and they had the Cabo Blanco Fishing Club there, and that meant that the New York office of the airline booked most of those millionaire VIPs who were members of the club. So you were one on one with these great people like John Olin of Olin Industries. Anyhow, I managed the airport in Talara for two years, and I got this great promotion because these people were the kind of people who would write a nice letter to New York and say this kid really took care of me down here, and they got a series of those letters, and all of a sudden I got a visit from the boss, and he said. “We got a new spot for you. You’re going to be the special rep to Colombia/Venezuela living in Bogota.” And so I married in 1955 after a year in Bogota and took my bride from Gloucester, Virginia down, great girl, a home ec graduate student, and we had a very nice time. Let me see where I was, let’s see. I was there five years. Then we returned to Tidewater Virginia where we both had strong family roots. I was fortunate to attract a job in the Bank of Virginia training program which bank liked my international airline sales background. I very much needed the financial training. The other six trainees all had MBA degrees. This was sort of a short MBA course that I took. As a trainee, we worked in every department of the bank and wrote it up critically in a report. I did especially well in commercial credit analysis, according to the vice president in charge, and got an honor award from the Peninsula Chapter of the American Institute of Banking and Economics for the top grade in economics that year in Newport News. I was a loan officer for over a year in the Newport News branch. The bank did not have an appropriate position for me at the end of the training period, and so I went to see my brother-in-law, Richard Talley, who was Vice President of Colonial Williamsburg and Director of Personnel, a very wise man. I said, “What do you do with this background in operations, sales, and finance?” He said, “What you do now is that you go up to Richmond, and you see Dr. Robert Filer, who founded
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Psychological Consultants, Inc., and you invest in yourself. This is good to know from ____, and you take every test they have for personality, aptitude, and interests, and then you have Filer interpret the result of the tests.” I did that, and Filer said, “You should be in the business end of the arts. Your interest area is all artistic. Your experience is in administration, office management, and your personality is friendly.” [Laughter] So, my brother-in-law, Dick Talley, could not hire me because he had a no-nepotism law with Colonial Williamsburg, but he knew Brian Caldwell, who was director of the museum, so he gave a really good recommendation to Brian. He’d been here one year of his ten-year tenure, and Brian was delighted to hire me because he was being pushed to hire an admiral, a retired admiral, which is what they do in Norfolk all the time, and he said, “Matt, if I hired the admiral, the admiral would have me running all over the place, and I don’t want to hire an admiral. I want to hire somebody like you, you know, who I can run all over the place.” So, I ended up with Brian for nine years, and we loved it. My wife—we were really close friends, and the membership programs were so good and so much fun. We had just a great time, and the best of those was the NATO Film Series where they wanted to make friends with the Navy, and he ask me to contact the Navy PR director, and we invited every NATO country to present its country on film, one a month in alphabetical order. And it was so successful that membership just zoomed, and the families of the naval officers dressed in costume of each nationality, and they started bringing food of the country, you know, for the reception afterwards, and it was just a runaway program where everybody won. So, it was just a tremendous success. And with the airline, with a travel background, the first safari was a trip to Gloucester, Virginia, my old hometown where he said, “Get three historic houses, and put them on a tour for the museum.” So, I knew all those people well, and we had three historic houses and a busload of ladies – 40 -- and the third house was Toddsbury, and Mrs. Montague Moore, her father had been governor of Virginia, and when my father graduated from VMI and signed his diploma and was a real good friend of my family, and we said, “Mrs. Moore, why don’t you let us—we’d like to feed these people lunch, and let us do that,” because we had a team at the museum who did this. She thought about it awhile and called me up and said, “Matt, just let me do it. I’ll use my staff.” So, I had enough sense on the bus to say, “Now, the third house belongs to Mrs. Montague Moore, and it’s not going to be like any house you ever saw. She was the daughter of the governor of Virginia; she is a great lady; she’s very arts oriented; she’s a great giver to the arts world, and she’s invited you all to lunch, and I guarantee you it’s going to be special.” And Mrs. Moore, Charles Beatty Moore, sat by the door of the dining room, and it was the best meal any of us had ever seen, and afterwards she said, “Matt, I got a thank-you note from every lady on that bus. I could have run for mayor in Norfolk and won.” [Laughter] They all came back and talked about it, and from then on out, we just filled up every safari. It was just amazing. So, you know that was very happy, successful high point.
Major: Yes.
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Werth: So that’s how I got into the arts administration. The problem I found in arts administration. You really ought to have a master’s for one thing, you know, to really do well in this field, and I did the best I could, but I didn’t get a master’s. I really got a pretty good education in finance, and I switched from sales more to the business side. And, so that led me to the symphony, but what happens is that boards change, and when the young people, and this is normal, I mean the young people take over what the older are doing, and so if you’re older sometimes you’re out because they want their own people. That’s normal flow, so I guess it’s a little tough when you get older, but the great blessing I had was—do you know Peter Meredith?
Major: Sure.
Werth: Well, he’s like a brother to me. I tell Pete I worked for him for love. It wasn’t a lot of money, but I just loved working for his family, and I helped raise the kids, you know. So it was just great, and he did the inside of this house. I got Murrell to get, I got Meredith Construction as our general contractor for doing over this house. I said, “Did you know you were going to end up with me?” We have Kenny every afternoon who is a Meredith’s worker. Her office secretary is the old office manager for Meredith, and we’re like a branch of Meredith Construction. [Laughter] So, that’s how that worked… I’ve talked to you a lot.
Major: That’s right. Is there anything else that, that you hoped I would ask that you haven’t…
Werth: Uh… Let’s see…
Major: …haven’t had a chance to comment on.
Werth: Well, there is a report on museum membership here; if you’d like to take that copy you can.
Major: Thank you.
Werth: I have here a selection of things that you can take. I’ve mislaid my reference from Panagra, which is a wonderful letter, and I mislaid it this morning. I can’t find it. I can find the cover letter that came with it, but I can’t find that letter. But essentially, they said I wanted to be a good investment for Panagra. We chose to come back to the states after I had been down there seven years because the company was in litigation, and they did eventually sell it to Braniff, and I just wanted to get back to Tidewater, and I gave it a good shot. They said that I had made lots of friends for the company. They would miss me and were very sorry that I couldn’t take the job they had for me next, which was in Cochabamba, Bolivia and I thought my Virginia bride would probably rather live in Norfolk than in Cochabamba, so we came back, and I was very lucky to get that job offer from the Bank of Virginia. That came about through a friend in
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Gloucester who was a very prominent Richmond citizen with his own little company, recently retired, and he invested five thousand dollars that I had sent home for my father to invest, and he said he knew I had to get a job, so he took me up to Richmond, and he said, “I want to introduce you to some of my friends,” and they were bank presidents and estate planners, and another one was Reynolds Metals, and the Bank of Virginia heard about it and came after me, so I just lucked out on that deal. You know, I got paid while I was learning so.
Major: Yes, this has been wonderful. Thank you very much.
Werth: The pleasure’s been mine for letting me get all this off my chest. [Laughter]
Major: Right.
Werth: Okay.
END OF INTERVIEW
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